Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2022

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

That's great.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Unfortunately, you have 10 seconds left.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'll leave it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

If you'd like to cede that, it would be wonderful.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll now turn to Mr. Nater for up to five minutes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to be here.

I will admit here, at the beginning, that Perth—Wellington doesn't have the most egg farmers in the country. That distinction lies with Ms. Rood, who has the most egg farmers in the country. However, I was informed by Tonya Haverkamp, my board rep in Perth County, that Perth County produces approximately 14 million dozen eggs each year. That would equate to about 28 million litres of the Nater family eggnog recipe, so we're very proud of that.

On a more serious matter, I'll direct this to the Egg Farmers of Canada. I'll begin with trade issues and CUSMA.

We understand that there will be a joint review of CUSMA in the years to come. I want to know whether you have any concerns about the type of precedent a situation like this sets—where supply management appears to be opened up—whether it be the United States or other trading partners.

[Tim Lambert]

Yes, and that's a really good point to raise. It is a concern.

I think I saw a statement that the risk of it being carried on is low. Well, “low” and “zero” are not the same thing. Any time you have supply management opened up in that way, there is always the risk that it will continue on in some other form.

I go back to the point that has been made by a number of people around this. We have our three pillars, and knowing what's coming into the country is absolutely critical to be able to predict production. If it's coming in and we have birds in the barn, then those birds are going out of the barn and that income will be lost to Canadian farmers.

As we come out of COVID and rebuild our supply chains, we believe that there have to be other ways to get at this. To repeat something we've said, we absolutely want to be part of finding some other way, other than this way.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

We spoke a little earlier in response to some questions about the compensation programs that have been announced recently in response to former trade deals. I'm curious to know if you have any insight from egg farmers across the country on whether they're encountering any challenges in accessing that program currently.

[Roger Pelissero]

On those mitigation packages and the compensation with CPTPP and CUSMA, our farmers are happy with what has been happening. It has taken a little longer to process some of it, but we understand the delays with COVID. The government did hold true on their promise. They did work with us. There was really good consultation in those times regarding the volumes and the impact on our industry. We're thankful for that.

We were a little surprised when this rolled out. We don't know what the impacts will be regarding future trade deals and a review of CUSMA. The government of the day might be different from the government that is there today. When CUSMA was negotiated, it was a different president than they have now. That was a different round of negotiations. I remember going down there. It was quite dynamic.

As we move forward, it would be good to know what we're dealing with. Import control is one of our major pillars, and we need to make sure that we respect that pillar.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I think I have time for at least one last question.

I want to follow up a bit on the concern about avian influenza. We heard from the Chicken Farmers of Canada earlier about the protocols in place when there is an outbreak at a farm in Canada. I want to know if there's a similar protocol for egg farmers.

As well, can you give us an estimate of the timeline for how long it would take to repopulate a farm once it's been completely euthanized?

[Roger Pelissero]

Yes. If you were to be identified as having AI at your farm.... The farmer would find it first, obviously, with the mortality that's hitting. It is quite devastating. Once the order is given, the farm is euthanized. All the hens on the farm are depopulated. It's a complete cleaning and disinfection.

Then, for an egg farmer, you'd probably be anywhere from a year to 18 months before you're back in production, because we keep our hens in a laying cycle of roughly 12 months. Your replacement pullets would have to come into the barn and there's the time to clean up. It is quite a huge amount of time.

There is also a model that the government has regarding being impacted by it. Does it make you rich? No. It might make you whole, but there is a lot of mental stress on the farmers and the family. It is quite devastating when something like that does happen. It is hitting the U.S. quite hard also. I know that in France and in the U.K. they've mandated that all poultry stay indoors. It's a little concerning when we hear that they don't have any in the U.K. It's like, if you don't look for it, you won't find it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Pelissero, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Nater.

Now we'll go to Mrs. Valdez and Mr. Louis. I believe you guys are splitting your time for the five minutes.

We'll start with Mrs. Valdez.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you to the witnesses who have joined us.

For a bit of background, as a baker I've cracked many an egg. I also managed a restaurant where we specialized in fried chicken. I want to acknowledge that I totally understand your concerns on protecting Canadians, as well as protecting our local farmers.

When we had the opportunity to speak with CFIA, I explicitly asked for their process pre- and post-import to Canada. Before it even enters Canada, there is a review process. Once the shipment comes into Canada, they will investigate the first 10 shipments. That would provide the opportunity for them to detect if there is any avian influenza or what have you. Then that would separate the process so that there wouldn't be any cross-contamination for it to ever get into anyone's farm. I also spoke to Canada Border Services Agency. They also indicated that they regularly monitor and track imports as well. There is a tracking mechanism, and there is surveillance.

I think you were asking about predictability. These are the things that I had asked for clarity on. I wanted to share that with you. If you can share your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

[Jean-Michel Laurin]

First of all, I listened to the meeting on Monday, and I thank you for asking those questions of our CFIA officials.

I'll add that our top priority as an industry is to ensure safe food for Canadians. If you walk through any processing plant in Canada, you see that throughout the operations. It's priority number one, and CFIA plays a critical role in ensuring safe food for Canadians, as well, because they control that import part of the industry. They also have a continuous presence in our primary processing establishments and provide oversight for the large majority of our establishments that are federally regulated.

It is critical for us that CFIA.... You mentioned the work they do. When shipments come in, it's very important that they continue to.... We basically apply the same standards and the same threshold to all imports, regardless of the source of the import.

That's why it's important to us that CFIA continue to do the work they have been doing to make sure that Canadians have trust in their food sources, regardless of whether those food products are imported or produced domestically.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate the time.

I appreciate all the witnesses here, and Monday's testimony as well.

I would like to say that, ultimately, we all want to support Ukraine in their time of need. That is something that needs to be said over and over again, and that's admirable. Canadians are stepping up in various ways.

We also want to make sure the economic impact on the supply management sector is minimal, while protecting our farmers. At the same time, we're talking about protecting our food.

Maybe I could turn to Ms. Coughlin on the same line of questioning. If the safe food for Canadians regulations were met and the health of animals regulations were met, and if there were additional assurances from Ukraine and full inspection for the first 10 shipments.... I believe there were three companies involved, so that's about 30 inspections. After that, one in 10 shipments would get inspected.

You mentioned that the systems in place met the CFIA requirements. To me, it sounds thorough, but you're the experts. Do those measures seem adequate to you?

[Katrina Coughlin]

It's hard to comment on their adequacy as situations arise. CFIA is following their usual process. They are implementing their obligations under the SFCR and looking at the different factors that are there.

Whether or not that will be adequate to ensure that products that ultimately arrive in Canada.... It's difficult to predict.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Maybe I'll turn to the egg farmers. I have about a minute left.

Are you aware of eggs from Ukraine being exported to the EU and the U.K.?

[Tim Lambert]

Ovostar, the large Ukrainian company, is one of the largest exporters in Europe. They are located in central Ukraine. Their headquarters are in Kyiv. They have their production facilities around and they export massive amounts of eggs and egg product throughout—

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

My last question would be this. On the eggs that might come here, would they be table eggs or processed eggs? Do you have any idea?

[Tim Lambert]

Again, we don't know. It's far less likely that they would be table eggs, with the logistics of transporting eggs in the shell, but I don't know. It's more than likely to be egg product. It still creates the same situation that would directly economically impact our family farms. It's simply a fact that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, gentlemen.

I yield the floor to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Don't worry, I won't be offering my own recipes.

Let's also reiterate our solidarity with Ukraine. I'm sure you share it as well; that's not the question. Other countries have lived through great tragedy in the past, and we've often exempted a large number of products, but this is the first time we've addressed the agri-food issue. This is a first.

Ms. Coughlin, you say you weren't sure the audit that was conducted was adequate. Theoretically, if the last audit was conducted in 2019 and most of the crisis had passed in 2021, doesn't that call for an update? Shouldn't we audit that more closely, if only for that reason.

[Katrina Coughlin]

Certainly, this is an unprecedented situation. We don't have a similar situation that has arisen where we can see what CFIA has done. I can say that we've seen other situations where they've done a maintenance audit and they've gone back to a country to look again at systems or to look at a certain region where concerns or questions remained.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

So it would be entirely legitimate and warranted.