Agriculture Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 94 of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri‑Food.

I will start with a few reminders. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee. Screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, January 31, 2024, and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 8, 2024, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-355, An Act to prohibit the export by air of horses for slaughter and to make related amendments to certain Acts, an act to prohibit the export by air of horses for slaughter and to make related amendments to certain acts.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses for the first panel.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have two officials with us. First, we have Graeme Hamilton, acting director general, traveller, commercial and trade policy directorate, strategic policy branch.

We also have Cathy Toxopeus, director general of commercial programs in the commercial and trade branch.

No stranger to this committee, from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Dr. Mary Jane Ireland. Thank you for being back. She serves as the executive director of the animal health directorate and as the chief veterinary officer for Canada. Joining her today is Dr. Rick James-Davies, director general of western operations. Thank you both for being here.

We also have Ms. Shannon Nix, assistant deputy minister of the strategic policy branch, with the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food. Thank you for being here today.

We're going to allow five minutes for opening remarks from each organization. I'm going to start with the Canada Border Services Agency.

It's over to you for up to five minutes.

[Graeme Hamilton, Acting Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Strategic Policy Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the committee's study of Bill C‑355.

We are present today to share with the committee the roles and responsibilities of the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, in monitoring the export of terrestrial animals, including horses.

As many of you already know, the CBSA facilitates the flow of billions of dollars of legitimate trade, and administers more than 100 acts and regulations at our borders. These efforts are designed to support the economic prosperity of our country while also keeping our country and Canadians safe. The CBSA plays a supporting role in verifying that other government department requirements are met for goods being imported into or exported from Canada, as well as administering the Customs Act.

Given the wide variety of acts enforced at the border, the CBSA works very closely with a number of government departments and agencies to ensure that the goods being imported to and exported from Canada are compliant with any act of Parliament that prohibits, controls or regulates their importation or exportation. In the context of agricultural imports and exports, we work very closely with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, which establishes the requirements for importing and exporting food, plants and animals into and out of Canada. CBSA officers follow its guidance and instructions and will detain goods when imports or exports fail to meet the requirements under the governing act.

This concludes my opening remarks. I'll be happy to take any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

We'll turn it over to the CFIA, please.

[Dr. Mary Jane Ireland, Executive Director, Animal Health Directorate, and Chief Veterinary Officer for Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency]

Thank you very much.

I'm very happy to appear before this committee as part of your study on Bill C-355.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency regulates horse exports under the Health of Animals Act and health of animals regulations. I would therefore like to describe the CFIA's current role in the process.

The Health of Animals Act and its regulations establish the requirements on the export of live animals. This includes the requirement that livestock, such as cattle and horses, being exported from Canada are inspected by a veterinarian and accompanied by an export health certificate that is signed by a CFIA veterinarian. The export health certificate is a legal document confirming that an animal complies with the sanitary requirements of the importing country.

The regulatory requirements for the humane transport of animals were updated in 2019. The goal of these amendments was to prevent avoidable suffering of animals throughout the transport process by setting out the conditions for humanely transporting all animals by all modes of transport.

Exporting a horse is a multistep process that requires the CFIA to certify that the horse meets all requirements for Canada and those of the importing country.

First, the exporter notifies the CFIA of their intent to export a horse. Import requirements may vary by country. Many countries require that the horse begin an isolation period before it can be exported. During this period, the CFIA tests the horse to confirm that it does not carry any diseases that are of concern to the importing country, which are listed on the export health certificate.

Once this testing is complete and the horse is found to meet all the requirements, a CFIA veterinarian provides the exporter with a signed export health certificate. The horse is loaded into a livestock trailer to travel to the airport. At the airport, CFIA veterinarians confirm that the horse is properly certified, is not showing any signs of distress and is fit to travel, and will be humanely transported based on Canadian regulatory requirements. Once a horse has landed in the importing country, the CFIA does not have any control or authority over its treatment and care.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with you today on the CFIA's role in regulating the export of live horses.

I welcome any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Dr. Ireland.

Colleagues, the bells are starting to ring, but as we on this committee have generally done in the past, we want to make sure we maximize our time here in committee. I'd like to ask for unanimous consent to use my discretion. I'll make sure you have proper time. We'll vote, and we'll make sure everyone is taken care of. Is that okay?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We'll now turn it over to the Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada for any comments.

[Shannon Nix, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch , Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to be part of your discussion on Bill C‑355.

The issue of the export of horses for slaughter has garnered significant public and social media attention, and the Canadian public has expressed concern over the practice. Through letters received by the department from Canadians, petitions presented in the House of Commons and public opinion polls, it appears that many Canadians are opposed to the practice of the live export of horses for slaughter.

In June 2021, petition e-3187 was presented to the House of Commons. It is one of the most signed e-petitions on record, with over 77,000 signatures. More recently, petition e-4190 was presented in February 2023 and garnered over 36,000 signatures.

As you know, this bill addresses the Minister of Agriculture and Agri‑Food's mandate letter commitment to ban the live export of horses for slaughter.

Agriculture and Agri‑Food Canada, or AAFC, has been working closely with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, or CFIA, and the Canada Border Services Agency to analyze the bill.

This is a complex issue that touches on a number of key considerations, including legal obligations; international trade commitments and relations; acts and regulations involving animals more broadly; and mechanisms for implementation and enforcement.

Given the complexity of the issue, I will provide some quick data points and context that I hope will be helpful for your review.

According to Statistics Canada, in 2023 about 2,500 horses were exported from Canada for slaughter, valued at about $19 million. Foals aged between six and nine months are sourced from Canadian horse breeders and transported to one of about five feedlots in Canada, where they're raised until about the age of two. The horses are then flown overseas from Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg. Once the horses reach the country of destination, it is the authorities in that country that are responsible for regulatory oversight.

Compared with other meat sources, such as cattle and pigs, the horsemeat sector is relatively small and data is quite limited. As this is a relatively small sector with very little available information, gaps in knowledge do exist, including the degree to which indigenous people participate in the trade. Within the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, we've been working hard to gather additional data and information to better understand the sector.

As part of the department's work to provide advice on the minister's mandate commitment, we reached out with CFIA to key stakeholders in the sector. We connected with most exporters, a major freight forwarder, several animal welfare organizations, individual producers and indigenous organizations.

Our initial discussions with industry point to about four active exporters of live horses for slaughter in Canada. These exporters purchase horses from a few hundred producers and keep the horses on feedlots until they're ready to be exported.

The producers operate many different types of farms. Some are far more dependent than others on the horse export market. While some horse breeders raise horses specifically for the live export market, it appears that most horse breeders supplying this market mostly breed horses for other purposes. Some of the producers told us that the export market provides a valuable secondary market to support their businesses.

We will continue to engage and consult as needed to better understand how this bill could impact producers and the sector. From the correspondence that our department has received and from our conversations with animal rights organizations, it's clear that many Canadians view horses differently from other livestock.

To conclude, I'd like to note that our department considers very carefully any policy change that impacts agricultural producers. As I noted at the outset, this is a complex issue. As Bill C-355 moves through the parliamentary process, we will continue to work closely with CFIA to identify any potential impacts and provide advice to the government to mitigate any unintended consequences.

I hope this overview is helpful. I welcome any questions the committee may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nix. We'll go to exactly that.

Mr. Barlow, you have up to six minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's good to have officials here to shed some light on this legislation.

Certainly, I hope we aren't governing by the number of petitions. Well, maybe we should start. There's a petition in the House with 350,000 signatures asking for an election. If we're going that route, then I would say we'd better follow that one too.

Dr. Ireland from CFIA, thank you very much for coming. I want to highlight a letter from the previous agriculture minister to the Métis Nation of Alberta on this bill specifically. The letter from Madam Bibeau at that time said:

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is a science-based organization. Therefore, the Agency would only ban the slaughter of a species on the basis of a significant body of strong, peer-reviewed evidence. In the absence of such a body of evidence, there are currently no plans to ban horse slaughter in Canada.

Is the CFIA in possession of a strong body of peer-reviewed evidence to support the banning of the export of horses for slaughter—or any other animal, for that matter?

[Dr. Mary Jane Ireland]

The agency is a science-based organization. The regulations we have for humane transport under the Health of Animals Act and health of animals regulations oversee the export and transport of animals into, within and out of the country. The aim of those regulations is to ensure that we prevent avoidable suffering. These regulations were updated in 2019 to reflect the best available science and international considerations after many years of engagement with stakeholders. The regulations are relatively new. They provide enhanced protections for animals being transported.

I would agree with the question in the sense that CFIA is a science-based organization. We regulate based on information. The regulations regarding transport were published in 2019, coming into effect in 2020.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

With that in mind, in your opinion, Dr. Ireland, is this legislation based on any scientific evidence that there's any undue harm or risk to these horses? Is this bill based on any scientific evidence that you know of at CFIA?

[Dr. Mary Jane Ireland]

I won't speak to the bill specifically. I will say that our rules ensure that animals are treated humanely while they're being transported. However, as part of the regulatory requirements, transporters are required to report to the agency when horse deaths or significant injuries occur as a result of transport, and that applies to any animal.

The rules for horses with respect to their movement, their transport, are the same regardless of whether the horses are destined for another country for whatever purpose. Whether it's for show purposes, a competition or a feedlot, the same rules apply.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

We've certainly heard through evidence and from the proponent of this legislation that, basically, the Health of Animals Act and CFIA are not protecting horses that are being transported by air. Would you say that statement is correct?

[Dr. Mary Jane Ireland]

As I've said, the regulations were amended in 2019 to offer additional protections and measures to prevent avoidable suffering in animals that are being transported, including horses. There are provisions for air transport also.

The regulations provide for adequate space and for proper training of those transporting, as well as speak to container closure and a reporting mechanism to CFIA should something go wrong during transport that results in death or significant injuries.

I have confidence in these regulations, but as I said before during the study on electronic logging devices, transporting animals is complex, and unforeseen events do happen. Contingency plans are required of the transporter, and there are times when the regulator and the transporter or regulatee must make decisions in the best interests of an animal's welfare.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Dr. Ireland.

I have just two more quick questions, as I'm running out of time.

Since the regulations were updated in 2019, have there been any fatalities of horses being transported by air? Do you have statistics on the number of injuries in horses transported by air?

[Dr. Mary Jane Ireland]

As we have reported forward-facing on our website, since 2013 there have been five fatalities out of the about 47,000 horses that have been exported. That's a mortality rate of about 0.011%. I'm not aware of other instances of significant injuries. The requirement for the regulated parties is to report mortalities and significant injuries.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Just for context, in that same amount of time, there have been 250 fatalities of pets on airlines, so that's quite a difference in numbers.

To CBSA, this legislation is going to put an extreme new onus on CBSA. Right now, does CBSA have the resources to take on what is being asked of it as part of this legislation? Does CBSA have any role as of right now in regulating the transport of horses?

[Graeme Hamilton]

I appreciate the question in the sense that CBSA does play a very important role in ensuring the movement of goods across the border for both import and export. We are often the agency that enforces other government department regulations at the point of crossing the border.

As it stands right now, as you heard in the testimony of my colleagues from CFIA, CFIA plays a very heavy role in the export of live horses. CFIA officials take a lot of care and attention with respect to the export of those animals, and officials ensure that they accompany those exports to the point of departure and the point of export, as it stands right now.

CBSA plays a very minimal role in facilitating that transaction. The bill as currently drafted does foresee a role for CBSA in ensuring that certain documentation is provided upon export. That would be a new enforcement responsibility for the agency. However, we've not yet worked with CFIA to define the standard operating procedures and how those would play out at the border, so I'm not in a position right now to articulate any further what sort of additional burden this would place on the agency and whether or not those resources are in place at present.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Hamilton.

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

We'll turn it over to Mr. Louis.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here. This is not the first time, nor certainly will it be the last. It's very important to have you here. Mostly, as a committee, we have been doing more reports than legislation, and your testimony for those reports really helps shape what's going on. We really appreciate that.

At the same time, when legislation comes, it's important, because you are the ones on the ground. It's really important for us to hear about that. It's why I appreciate you coming in and being here right off the top for this important study.

I will start with Ms. Nix, the assistant deputy minister for Agriculture.

You mentioned off the top the correspondence that Agriculture has received. I'm sure all of us have heard this in conversations at home in our ridings. There have been lots of petitions, and many people have been talking to us.

Can you give us a sense of the nature of that correspondence, how much of it was supportive, how much was against it and what common concerns you have heard from Canadians, as all of us have?

[Shannon Nix]

As I noted off the top, it's an issue that has garnered significant attention. The department has received letters in the order of tens of thousands. The majority are in favour of the ban and are expressing a few common concerns. I would say that stress and the size and type of crates horses are exported in are the two most common reasons cited.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Can you also speak about some of the other countries or jurisdictions that have legislation similar to what's being proposed in Bill C-355? Do you have insights into their rationale and their implementation process as well?

[Shannon Nix]

We are aware of other jurisdictions that have implemented or are considering implementing similar bans: New Zealand, Australia, the U.K., Germany and Brazil.

I would note that New Zealand, for example, banned the export of animals for slaughter in 2008. More recently, they implemented a prohibition on the export of livestock by sea. In December of last year, a bill was introduced in the U.K. House of Commons to prohibit the export of certain livestock for slaughter. That, I believe, is at second reading in their House of Lords right now.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

In the last few years, have you started working in conjunction with CFIA or CBSA about what steps you might take if this bill passes? Can you share some of the co-operation you're doing and the communication you're having?