Bill C-39 Committee on Oct. 19th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Dr. Martin.

We'll go back to you, Mr. Leslie.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Dabrusin, I have a fairly simple yes-or-no question. Did you consult the net-zero advisory board on Bill C-39 before it was tabled?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

You're talking to me about.... We had general consultations that were out there on this bill—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Not for the 10,000 people to answer—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

We had 26,000—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

You have a net-zero advisory board. It reports to you. It gives you advice. Did you consult them about Bill C-39 before you tabled it? It's just a yes or no.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

As I said, we had this out for consultation. There was a consultation document. You will have seen it.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. I'm going with a no on that one.

I recall that Simon Donner and Catherine Abreu both quit that net-zero advisory body because your government was completely ignoring them.

They came before the environment committee and gave very damning testimony. In fact, one of them called the board's role “performative”. Where specifically would you say they are wrong in saying that?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

What I will say is, first of all, that is a different purpose. We have worked very closely with the members of the board. We are actually working on developing it and making it stronger. I have been taking their advice, and they have been very helpful. There's been a very strong—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. Could you name one thing in this bill that they suggested be put in there?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

This is a different bill. This bill is about our process on the—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay, hold on. Let me ask you about this. You have a minister's advisory council on impact assessment, and they found in their third report “no compelling evidence that impact assessment stifles resource development”. Do you disagree with that finding?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The Impact Assessment Agency does very good and strong work, which we're actually bolstering through this process, to allow us to get good projects built. This is a vote of confidence in the Impact Assessment Agency.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Did the minister's advisory council on impact assessment recommend transferring responsibilities to the energy and nuclear regulators, as laid out in Bill C-39?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Look, in this bill, when we have these pieces, we're trying to simplify the process so that you have the experts in an area working on it, supported often by IAAC—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Minister, you seem to have two advisory councils that you are just completely ignoring. Is that my take-away?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm not ignoring them. I've actually met with them several times. They provide helpful advice. They're not giving me necessarily the advice that you want them to, because they're not telling me—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Well, it sounds like it's not the advice you want them to give, Minister. We've had members quitting these boards.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No. From what even you have said, the Impact Assessment Agency does very strong work, which is bolstered in this bill. It's a recognition that they actually are subject matter experts who are very strong, particularly when we're talking about the work that we were talking about on consultations.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay.

Under the net-zero accountability act, there is a legal obligation to have a parliamentary review “Five years after the...Act [came] into force”. June of this year marked the five-year anniversary.

Now, I've tried at the environment committee to table a motion for our committee to do a proper statutory review of that, and Liberal MPs keep shutting down debate. Our committee is meeting tomorrow. Considering that we probably should have done the statutory review prior to the tabling of this legislation, will you be supportive of that committee's doing a statutory review of the Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That's not my decision. It's a parliamentary committee, so I will wait to hear from them. As you have met with me frequently at the environment committee, when called upon, I will be there.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Something in your authority, then, is the fact that Environmental Defence is taking your government to court over alleged failures under your own Liberal Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act. Do you think spending taxpayers' dollars in finding the accountability of your own accountability law is a smart use of public funds?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I'm not going to comment on any matters that are going ahead in the courts right now, but we are here, as far as I understand, to talk about this bill, which is a very exciting bill, and which does, by the way, enable us to build big, clean energy projects. It helps us to actually get things done in this country that will be transformative in terms of building unifying, durable, clean energy right across the country.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Sure.

Bill C-39 also promises faster pipeline approvals, but clause 128 still requires regulators to weigh projects against your climate commitments. Can you explain, as clearly as you can, if you will take downstream pipeline emissions into consideration when approving a pipeline, yes or no?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Actually, you're talking about the clean electricity regulator, and that is not my agency, but if you're talking to me about whether I believe it's important that as we're building projects—