Canada-China Relations Committee on June 14th, 2021

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Materials coming from where, Mr. Stewart? Are they materials that were in possession of PHAC? Is that it?

[Iain Stewart]

Mr. Chair, and honourable member, if you think about the package of materials we provided to you, parts were withheld and parts were blacked out. The totality of that package was provided to NSICOP.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So nothing beyond that package was provided at all.

[Iain Stewart]

Exactly the materials that were requested in the House motion were provided.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Stewart, were any instructions provided to the committee by virtue of what they are requested to do?

[Iain Stewart]

My material was just a transmittal letter and the materials.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So what we have is a committee that has been sent a set of documents with no instructions. They're just there. They're sitting in their inbox. It's up to them what to do with them.

Minister Hajdu, you haven't requested them to do anything with those documents or anything with the issues that have been raised in this committee or raised in relation to this matter. Is that correct?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

As I said earlier to this exact question, the documents have been forwarded to the committee with the suggestion that this committee would be more equipped to perform the review of those documents.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

They would be, in your view, more equipped to perform the review of those documents, but in terms of what exactly they're expected to do, do you know if they have any investigative powers?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm sorry, I don't have the terms of reference for that particular committee, other than my understanding that, again, the appropriate level of clearance and security clearance is why that committee is better suited to look at these particular documents.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So they're only looking at documents. They're not conducting anything that they don't decide to do themselves. You haven't asked them to do anything and no one has asked them to do anything.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Certainly, if they choose to study the issue, that is at their prerogative, and they have the full set of documents from which to do so.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

So you're just basically passing them off to them, because you don't want to comply with the order of the House.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, I wouldn't put words in my mouth, MP Harris. I think that's inappropriate. What I have said is that this committee does not have the level of clearance to handle these documents that have sensitive information.

Obviously, I take my responsibility very seriously, which is why I have provided a fully unredacted set of documents to the committee with the appropriate clearance.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We'll have to leave that to another forum.

In the letter to the House of Commons committee, president Stewart said that PHAC had initiated “[a] number of review processes...relating to possible breaches of security protocols at the [National Microbiology Laboratory] in 2018”. I'd like to ask you a question that has been suggested by the Library of Parliament analysts: What prompted PHAC to begin reviewing possible security protocol breaches at the National Microbiology Laboratory?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm sorry, who is this question directed to?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It's directed to you, Minister. If you are unable to answer it, perhaps Mr. Stewart can answer it.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I was not the minister in 2018. I certainly will turn to Mr. Stewart, although I believe we're at time now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

We are at time.

Mr. Stewart, can you answer in two or three words?

[Iain Stewart]

The factors that motivated that are part of the materials that are redacted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

We'll now go on to the second round.

Mr. Williamson, you have five minutes, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister and officials, it's nice to see you here this evening.

Minister, your government had a national security breach at Winnipeg's microbiology lab. What can you tell us about that?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

As I have said repeatedly, the full documents requested by this committee have been submitted in their unredacted form to the appropriate committee for study.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

You objected to MP Harris putting words in your mouth earlier, when he was just asking the question, but you said earlier that you're under instructions to work in collaboration with both houses of Parliament—except you're not doing that. You're thumbing your nose at Parliament and your government's walking into contempt of Parliament by not fulfilling the order from parliamentarians. Why is that?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

MP Williamson, I would disagree with your assessment. In fact, we've provided redacted documents to this committee and fully unredacted documents to another committee, the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, for their full review. As I've said repeatedly in the House and elsewhere, including in front of all of you, I take national security seriously, as well as the privacy concerns that have led to this approach. As you know, those parliamentarians have the appropriate clearance to look at documents like this. Furthermore, I have repeatedly appeared in front of many committees of both houses throughout the pandemic and before, and will continue to do so.