Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I share your concern about national security.

The study done by Deloitte will enable us to improve our acquisition processes. I've also talked to the minister responsible for utilities and procurement, because what you've mentioned is important to me. We need to make sure that the issue of national security is central to all government processes, some of which you've mentioned.

For the benefit of the people listening, I'd say it's great if, thanks to the study we did with Deloitte, we can have stronger processes to ensure that security is at the heart of decisions about suppliers. We will also be developing a list of pre-approved security vendors.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

That's where we need to go, and it's urgent to do it.

Today we talked about Huawei and the 5G network. In a way, we understand that the government waited for the private company to decide to withdraw from the negotiations. It was difficult for you to answer this question.

We also talked about the Silk Road, protection of the North and Arctic sovereignty. I know that right now, with the government's permission, Huawei is setting up a standard communication line, which is not 5G. Huawei's desire was to help indigenous communities in northern Canada.

Are you aware of this file? Do you understand that there could be a security risk, again?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for mentioning this today. We will certainly look at all the security issues related to what you said earlier, but also related to China's evolution. That's the important thing to remember tonight: our policy is adapting to these elements, as is the policy of other countries.

There is no doubt that, in such a situation, security issues must be monitored first and foremost.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I would like to mention that one company—FiberHome—was banned by the Americans because it did not respect human rights. It is now an official business partner of the Government of Canada.

I want to bring that to your attention.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you. The point of this committee is to work together. We will follow up on what you told me, Mr. Paul-Hus. I can assure those listening that security issues are at the forefront of my mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Champagne.

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

We'll go to Mr. Oliphant, for five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. It's unusual to have a minister for two full hours at a committee meeting, so it's very much appreciated.

I want to begin where Ms. Zann left off but take it in a different way. She was talking about looking at commercial goods and seeing so many manufactured in China. What China doesn't have—and if she had time, she might have gone there—is Nova Scotia lobster. What China doesn't have is B.C. cherries. What China doesn't have is western Canadian canola, or pork from a variety of places in Canada.

They're usually not a friend of the Liberals, but the Canada West Foundation recently talked about that agricultural importance. While the Conservatives have abandoned western Canadian farmers in this discussion, I want to put that in, because you talked about the economic importance of China, but also the very difficult way they're not playing by the rules. They are bullying. They are abandoning the rules-based order. They are using hostage diplomacy. You have a job of trying to help Canadian farmers and businesses and standing up for Canadian values and human rights.

Mr. Dubourg asked what kept you up at night. I'm sure that's part of it, as well as the two Michaels. Could you reflect on your job as a minister in doing that important work?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I missed part of your question, but I'm sure it was a good question. As parliamentary secretary, you're doing outstanding work, and all the compliments with respect to repatriation, a good share of them, should come back to you, because you've been doing extraordinary work on behalf of Canadians.

You're quite right. Part of my role is to restore market access, whether it's seafood, canola or pork. That's something that has not been mentioned tonight, but we saw exports going up about 4.2% compared to 2019, if I recall correctly.

In fact, one of our jobs, not just my job, but the job of this committee.... If you're going to look at the Canada-China relationship, you also have to look—as you said quite rightly, Mr. Oliphant—at defending the interests of our fishers on the east coast, our farmers in the west, whether you're a pork producer, a seafood reseller, or a canola producer. Part of our job as parliamentarians on this committee is to look at how we can restore market access, how we can diversify access within China, work with our trade commissioner, work with our mission, and how we can diversify outside of China, as well.

Mr. Chong mentioned the CPTPP. You're quite right that our role, when you talk about defending interests, is to defend the interests of our exporters, entrepreneurs, farmers and fishers. Obviously, that's part of my work.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm happy to go to Ms. Zann, if she wants to finish my time.

Maybe I'll continue. We'll probably get another round. I have about a minute left.

The second part of that issue was obviously our markets, but also the rules-based international order, flaunting the rules, engaging with the WTO and engaging with other like-minded countries. You mentioned a number of times the importance.... Could you talk a bit more about Canada's role in re-establishing a rules-based order, so that we all play on a level playing field?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think one of the best examples and a lasting contribution of this government—and I will acknowledge in front of the committee that this was started before us—is the CPTPP. This is a prime example of Canada and the Asia-Pacific establishing a rules-based order when it comes to trade, trade with principle. In my view, that is very important and it is opening opportunities.

Let's remind Canadians who are watching that now, because of the CPTPP, the renewed NAFTA and CETA, Canada is the only country in the G7 that has a free trade agreement with all other G7 countries in the world. That gives preferential market access to about 1.2 billion consumers in the world.

I think the CPTPP is key in that rules-based international order when it comes to trade, and as Canadians, we should be very proud that we're the second-largest economy in that grouping of nations in the CPTPP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Oliphant.

Thank you, Minister.

Now we'll go to Mr. Williamson, for five minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you. I didn't think I was going to get another opportunity.

Minister, I'm going to go back and ask you about your interest in Immervision. You had listed in the public declaration an interest in this company, and then, in October, that interest was updated to reflect the fact that something happened. There was a sale, or you dissolved it.

Could you tell me about that, please, whether you were involved in those discussions and what your interest was?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

The record speaks for itself. I'm not a shareholder of that company.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That's not what I'm asking. Your own public declaration reports that you had an interest in this company, and then in October, it reported that you no longer had it.

I'm not asking you about currently. I can see that. I can read the public declaration. However, you clearly had an interest.

What was that interest, and what happened that you no longer have an interest in this company that is linked to a Chinese business that surveys Uighur detention camps?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Williamson, with respect, your question is very misleading to Canadians who are watching, because you're talking about a Montreal-based company. If you have something to say about a Montreal-based company, say it, but what I've said is that I'm not a shareholder in that company and the record speaks for itself.

I had a de minimis equity interest that was divested, and this was part of a number of things. As you see, the record speaks for itself, where I listed all my assets and liabilities, as every member of Parliament is obliged to.

The record speaks for itself. You have the public record and you can—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

You just said you divested your interest in that company.

Did you participate in those discussions, or did you direct someone to dissolve your interest in that company?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Williamson, I have no interest in that company. I'm not a shareholder in that company, and the record speaks for itself.

You can ask me the question as many times as you want. You will get the same answer.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay, then I'll ask you a different question. Were you once a shareholder in that company?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

The record speaks for itself.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

So you were.

What happened between when you were and when you weren't? The records are mute on that, but you clearly had an interest and now you don't. I just wonder whether you participated in that change.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chair, the record speaks for itself. I and every member of Parliament have to disclose our assets and liabilities. That's what I did, and we expect every other member to do so.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

That's true, but you don't think the fact that you're the foreign affairs minister, that you've already had an issue with a loan from a Chinese bank on a property overseas...and now this is another case where you've had a relationship with a company that had some type of involvement with a Chinese-backed firm—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Williamson, I think what you're saying is completely misleading. The record speaks for itself.

Just for the record, the loan you referred to was contracted 10 years ago with a bank in London, England. If you're going to be misleading, you should at least allow Canadians to have the facts, and then they can make their own—

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Sir, I'm trying to ask you about this one. I'm just showing you that there's a pattern here. This is not the first time we've seen this from your reporting, so I'd like to talk about this particular case.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I can see a pattern in your questioning as well, and I'm not sure that this is appropriate in front of a committee where we should be talking about—