Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We have taken a number of measures. As the honourable member will recall, before that even, I engaged with the High Commissioner for Human Rights at the United Nations, Michelle Bachelet, when we met in Europe. We had a discussion about the actions that the international community can be taking to have free and unfettered access to Xinjiang to be able to investigate and report back to the international community.

We are extremely concerned by the reports we have seen. I have raised this issue both publicly and privately and we have been taking action, Mr. Chair. I have done so directly with Madame Bachelet. We'll continue to engage with the international community when it comes to making sure that China upholds its international human rights commitments.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong.

Now we will go on to Ms. Yip for six minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Good evening, Minister Champagne. It's been quite a year for you and your team at GAC, and then you add the pandemic. I want to commend you and the staff at the department and ministry level for their repatriation efforts in bringing Canadians home. That was quite the task. Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions tonight.

Could you give me the status of how Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor are doing?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, thank you for acknowledging the immense work that was done by our team of diplomats, our officials and the ambassador. As you know, the virus started in Wuhan and that was the first place where we had to evacuate. That was a massive operation. Thanks to the men and women of our diplomatic corps, we learned a lot about how to do it. Unfortunately, as the virus spread, we had to apply the best practices we learned in China. For those who are watching tonight, I just want to say a big thank you, not only on my behalf, but I think I'm speaking on behalf of all committee members.

When it comes to Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor, I would say that, following the discussion I had with my counterpart in Rome, we have been working tirelessly to restore consular access. As you probably noted, we were able to get consular access to both Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor in October and November. There's the Privacy Act, but let me just say.... I'll report generally on their well-being. The most important thing that Canadians need to hear tonight is that we will be pushing at every step of the way, first, for their release, but also to get consular access on a monthly basis as the agreement between Canada and China stipulates. One of my objectives is always to call and demand that China respect its international obligations, and that's one of them.

We have been pushing with Ambassador Barton, with our officials and with the Prime Minister, everyone has been pushing all along to make sure that, first, we get both Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor released and then, in the meantime, that we get proper consular access.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

The Chinese ambassador in Canada warned that granting asylum to Hong Kong protesters could put Canadians in danger. This can be understood to be a threat. Do you see that statement as a threat?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I thought it was totally inappropriate and unacceptable. I've said that in no uncertain terms and I've even asked our officials to call the ambassador for consultation, which we did, to convey that message. The key message here, what we're saying, is that this type of coercive diplomacy is not just unacceptable, but it's not conducive for China to achieve its own objectives. There are norms in international diplomatic relations and we will always stand up and speak up to make sure that we protect and defend the interest of Canadians. In this case, I spoke publicly—the same day I think, the same evening—to say that this was unacceptable and we conveyed that message to the ambassador.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Can you expand on how Canada can uphold its values and interests in the face of coercive diplomacy?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think that's a very good question. Thank you.

I think one of the best ways, and I said it a bit in my opening remarks, is that liberal democracies in the world need to stand up and speak up together. As many have said, Canada has been issuing a number of statements. Sometimes we did it with our partners in the United Kingdom and sometimes with the United States. Sometimes we did it with the Five Eyes. On other occasions, we did it with the G7.

I think there is a need for countries to engage with each other, these liberal democracies, those who believe in the values and principles of democracy—free speech, freedom of religion, human rights—and to speak up as one, and that's what Canada has been fostering. On many occasions, Canada was there to help make sure that we would speak with one voice, and we will continue, because we all know that human rights are one of the core principles of our foreign policy.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

As the situation in Hong Kong continues to deteriorate, many Canadians here in Canada are rightfully concerned for the safety of their friends and family. Given the long reach of the national security law, should the Chinese community in Canada feel unsafe?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Well, I think what we have heard over the last few weeks [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm sorry. I can't hear you. There seems to be a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'll pause the time for the moment. Hopefully, we'll get the minister back momentarily here.

There he is.

I'm sorry, Minister, but you were frozen for a moment. Please go ahead.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Can you hear me now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Yes.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

What I was saying, I think, was that any Canadians who are watching tonight who feel any form of either intimidation or threat should really report these incidents to their local police force, because we want to investigate, and we will prosecute to make sure that anyone who's engaging in that is facing the law in Canada.

Now, when it comes to Hong Kong, obviously we have an interest in the stability and prosperity of Hong Kong. We have more than 300,000 Canadians living in Hong Kong. As you know, they have a constitutional right to come back to Canada, but we announced additional measures through Minister Mendicino, the Minister of Immigration, of enhancements to our immigration measures to welcome very talented young people who may want to come to Canada and to also make sure that there would be a pathway to permanent residency in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Yip.

Mr. Bergeron, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, thank you for joining us this evening.

I was drinking in your words and I didn't want to miss anything in your presentation. That is why I asked you to send us your text. As has just happened with your discussion with Ms. Yip, we missed a part of your presentation, which, I am sure, was absolutely fascinating and most interesting. That's why we want to be able to be apprised of its entire content.

You did not answer the question by our colleague Mr. Chong about the Government of Canada's new policy on relations with China. We are in the process of working on that issue ourselves and it is our intention to make recommendations to you in due course.

What added value do you see in the work of this committee, given that you are preparing this new policy independently of our work?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

In my opinion, the work of the committee adds a great deal of value.

In foreign policy, there is no partisanship. The idea is to inform Canadians and to work together to define the best approach possible. I greatly appreciate the work of the committee in this regard.

Foreign policy is always a work in progress. China is evolving and our policy must keep pace. The major principles are based on Canadian interests and values, on the principles of human rights, and on a good number of rules that we must make sure are followed.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

We really look forward to finding out about the new policy. I hope that we will be able to contribute to it in some way through our recommendations.

Ms. Yip alluded to the statement made on October 15 by China's ambassador, which was at the very least surprising, if not offensive.

Do you not believe that it would have been appropriate to summon the ambassador to the Department of Foreign Affairs in regard to such an inappropriate statement?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Bergeron.

That is exactly what we did.

That same evening, I said that his remarks were totally unacceptable and I asked official representatives to meet with the ambassador to inform him of Canada's exact position, and that was done.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Apparently, that did not cool his jets, so to speak, because he repeated exactly the same thing to us when he appeared before the committee. In any event, the message does not seem to have been understood.

I would now like to ask you a question about the fact that, today, the major Canadian telecommunications companies have announced that they really don't need Huawei to set up a 5G network on Canadian territory.

Does that statement make your life easier, given that, in the next 30 days, you have to make a decision about Huawei and about establishing a 5G network in Canada?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

No.

As you can imagine, national security is front and centre in our analysis and it will always be front and centre when we make decisions as important as those protecting communication systems throughout Canada. There have been a lot of consultations, but I am really relying on all the Canadian agencies that have provided the government with all the expertise we need. We will make a decision when the time is right.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Minister, on the precise issue of national security, the Canadian agencies are actually of the opinion that there is a danger, just like the four members of the Five Eyes group that have already made their decision.

What is the explanation for the Canadian government being so late in making its decision, compared to our allies?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Those listening to us will understand that, when it comes to making such an important decision about national security, it is important to have first done all the proper work, so that we can be assured that we have properly consulted our allies and properly assembled all the information we have obtained.

We know that the 5G network will make great things happen. The Government of Canada has a very important decision to make and people at home will understand that we have studied all the considerations that we had to study, that national security is of prime importance, and that we will make a decision when the time is right.