Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Let's have a brief answer, please.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chair, I do not own shares in that company.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

But you did.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I said I do not own shares and the public record will state it. The record is clear, Mr. Chair. I'm surprised at this allegation coming from a member like you, Mr. Williamson. The record speaks for itself. I do not own shares, and I am not aware of the allegations that you are making.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Williamson.

I now give the floor to Mr. Dubourg for five minutes.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Mr. Minister.

Hello to everyone accompanying you as well.

First of all, I would like to join my colleagues in extending many thanks to you. Since the beginning of 2020, when first we had the situation in Iran due to the plane crash, which was immediately followed by the COVID-19 crisis and you had to take all the steps needed to bring people back from abroad and get the people on cruise ships home, it's safe to say you have been very busy. I'd like to sincerely thank you and your entire team.

Here is the question I'd like to ask you: you have worked with the Minister of Immigration, Mr. Mendicino. He appeared before us. He presented a certain number of measures, with respect to Hong Kong's workers and graduates, for instance, and we'd like to encourage them to immigrate so that they can help support our economy. He talked about prioritizing certain immigration pathways for families, and also about a number of measures to improve protections in our refugee claim system. We have a strong immigration system.

Do you know how China reacted to Mr. Mendicino's announcement?

Does China consider these measures to be sanctions on our part?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, thank you for your kind words about our public servants, who did all the work. I am thinking of all those who spent long hours bringing home Canadians in distress. I believe this will go down in the history of the Department of Foreign Affairs as a great moment when we all came together to assist Canadians in distress.

To answer your question, I can only speak from Canada's perspective. We're taking the necessary steps to handle the situations we're facing. I feel the immigration measures we announced are complementary to other measures announced by the United Kingdom and Australia. It was the right thing to do.

We have also introduced very specific measures for students. You saw that we have several measures to attract human capital that can come and contribute to the prosperity of Canadian society.

As you said, our refugee protection system is very strong. We have many measures in place to manage the situation, and we will continue to make decisions in the best interests of Canadians.

As I said, in the case of Hong Kong, with an estimated 300,000 Canadians currently living there, we obviously have a vested interest in taking appropriate measures to ensure their stability and prosperity. We also want to provide a gateway for those who would like to come here, and that's what Minister Mendicino announced last week.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

I have another question. You talked about the bilateral situation with China, which is complex, and I know there are several issues. You talked earlier about the two Michaels and said that bringing them home was a priority for you.

We're talking about trade interests, the safety of diplomats and staff who are there, the COVID-19 situation, the 300,000 Canadians who are there, and also the trade or climate issue.

Of all those issues, what's really keeping you up at night, Mr. Minister?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I only heard the end of the question. I will try to answer as best I can from what I could understand.

First, Mr. Dubourg, I'd like to say that I'm deeply concerned about bringing Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor home. That is the top priority. It's not just mine and the Government of Canada's priority, it's the priority of all parliamentarians, because this arbitrary detention is shocking to all Canadians.

I want to make sure that Canada is there on the world stage to stand up for Canadian values and principles, such as the human rights we have heard so much about tonight. I'm also concerned that we need to take appropriate action on all national security matters.

We have a lot of work to do, and we see that what's happening in Canada is what we are observing in many liberal democracies. The geostrategic issue, how to deal with China on certain issues, has become a global geostrategic issue. That's why we need to work with other countries. On climate change, for instance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Your time is up, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Dubourg.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Bergeron, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, the well-deserved praise you are receiving from your supporters must be a comfort to you in terms of what has been done in recent months with respect to the repatriation of Canadian citizens stranded abroad because of the pandemic.

That said, we were talking earlier about bilateral versus multilateral relationships. Until now, the People's Republic of China has been directly going after states. It does so state by state, isolating them from each other. This allows it to have a considerable effect on each of these states in isolation.

At the same time, the People's Republic of China is weaving a web around the world and increasing its influence in international organizations, presumably to be able to counter the multilateral effect. We will have to think about what needs to be done to enable us to play a useful role or even to counter the influence of the People's Republic of China.

The Tibetan Administration representative, a position equivalent to that of the president, told us that the failure of the 17-Point Agreement foreshadowed the failure of the notion of “one country, two systems” which itself foreshadows what is likely to happen in Taiwan.

What lesson do you draw from the logic that the Tibetan Administration representative presented to us?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First, let me pass the kind words addressed to me in terms of repatriation on to those who did the work, the consular officials, who really deserve this praise.

I was not present during the testimony in question, so I am going to answer your question in a more general way. We need to engage and face China with our eyes wide open, and I think that is sort of in line with your comment.

In other words, we are asking China to live up to its international commitments. That is what we have done in consular matters and that is what we are doing, for example, in the case of the Uighurs and Tibet. I am pleased to tell you that our Ambassador Dominic Barton was able to visit Tibet from October 26 to 30. We will certainly continue to work with the international community on Tibet, Xinjiang and Hong Kong.

Mr. Bergeron, you said and you fully understand that this is not a bilateral issue, it is a multilateral issue. For instance, you mentioned China's presence in a number of international organizations. We are discussing it with some of our colleagues from around the world. We are trying to find ways to promote certain candidates for key positions in international organizations.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Harris, you have two and a half minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, you've talked several times about the very talented young people for whom the immigration changes have been made available to come to Canada to go to university, to study here, and perhaps have a path to citizenship.

This has been criticized as being inadequate and perhaps elitist, to allow only post-secondary students who have the money to come and be a part of this, while people are calling for a lifeboat for individuals in Hong Kong who may be subject to persecution by the new security laws.

What measures are available there for them? The government has the means to arrange for people to leave China if they wish to pursue that. What is going to be done to help them as well?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Harris, to those who say that, I would say that our measures are complementary to other measures that were adopted. When we came up with our body of measures on immigration, as you know, the Five Eyes had a number of measures put in place. I would say they are complementary. Among the Five Eyes, we said we needed to be complementary because, again, the response with respect to Hong Kong was that we already have a very robust asylum regime in Canada, one that makes—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

But you have to get here to participate in that. I understand that. If you're here, you can make your application, but getting here is the issue. That was done before with China, and it could be done now, with ways of getting special visas so people can actually leave the country.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As you know, people who have a Hong Kong passport can travel to Canada. They have to file the eTA to come to Canada.

The measures that we announced last week were in addition to the body of measures that we already have to welcome people to our shore. As I said, Mr. Harris, they work complementary to other measures. I think they were pretty smart. We talked with our allies around the world and we said we should make sure we have a set of measures collectively that would deal with the issue that we're facing.

That's the co-operation and collaboration that I think many members are suggesting when it comes to dealing internationally. It's to work with our closest allies. That's what we did.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Where's the other half of that complement for the young people I'm talking about?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

We'll now go on to Mr. Paul-Hus.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Mr. Minister.

I agree with most of the remarks you made in your opening statement that the China of 2020 is not the China of 2015 or 2018 and that we have to keep our eyes open.

However, Mr. Minister, I must tell you that I am disappointed in your approach to the position of the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Erin O'Toole, on China. I just want to point out that, for millions of Canadians, the position of the Liberal leader, the current Prime Minister is very distasteful.

I want to talk about the Chinese company Nuctech. As you know full well, the company is largely owned by the Communist Party of China, with whom the Government of Canada has an agreement. Contracts were awarded by the Canada Border Services Agency not even a year ago. Your department was also involved in developing an agreement with Nuctech, which was a standing offer.

Could you tell me how we were able to get to that point?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Paul-Hus.

You know that I have a lot of respect for you and all the work you do.

People watching us at home need to know that one offer was all we had from Nuctech. No purchase was made by Global Affairs Canada.

By the time I became aware of this matter, you will recall that I requested a review. We conducted that review with the auditing firm Deloitte, who made suggestions to improve our procurement process in terms of security to ensure that security is given even greater importance when we award contracts.

And I think you will agree that it is a good idea to remind people that Global Affairs Canada made no purchases. It was an offer, not a contract.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

As we talk to the Canadians listening to us, we can mention that if the opposition had not done its job, we would probably have Nuctech equipment in all our embassies today. I wanted to raise this important fact.

But mostly I want to understand. Last week I was at the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, and officials from your department and from Public Services and Supply Canada were passing the buck. Everybody was saying that it wasn't their fault, it was the other person's fault, that we didn't know why the situation got that way, and so on and so forth.

Could you tell me why, in 2020, the Government of Canada is still doing business with China for all of its security equipment when it could have an impact in terms of computers or the use of cameras, for example? This could directly affect national security and you do it knowing full well that we can't trust China in this regard.