Evidence of meeting #26 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was classical.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hubert T. Lacroix  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Richard Stursberg  Executive Vice-President, English Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Sylvain Lafrance  Executive Vice-President, French Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Welcome, everyone. I'm sorry for the little bit of a delay. We had a little problem on where we were all meeting, so we're glad we have as many people here now as we do.

Welcome, again, to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, meeting number 26. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this is our study of plans and priorities of CBC/Radio-Canada.

Today we welcome our witnesses before us.

Before we start this meeting, I'd like to go over a couple of things. I want to remind members of the relevant legislation and point out that any questions that overstep the statutory limits set out in the Broadcasting Act or that inappropriately infringe on CBC/Radio-Canada's operational independence will have to be ruled out of order.

I'm sure we'll all have a good and profitable discussion today as we seek to learn more about the plans and priorities of CBC/Radio-Canada and how our public broadcaster is fulfilling its public mandate and serving our great country.

With that, gentlemen, I invite you to make your opening statements.

Go ahead on a point of clarification, sir.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Mr. Chairman, am I to understand that we can't ask questions about the two solitudes? You say any question about programming will be ruled out of order. Did I understand correctly?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

General questions can be answered, but if we get too specific....

I don't have a real problem with that. Let's--

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Do you have specific examples of what you mean by “specific”?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

No, I don't, but I'll get there if I find it.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Will it be the feeling of the moment?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Yes, sir.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Go ahead, Ms. Mourani.

3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC

Before starting, I would just like to mention that I have filed a notice of motion on TQS that I would like us to debate on Tuesday.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

We can do that. We'll put that on for Tuesday.

3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Thank you for that.

Welcome, Monsieur Lacroix, Mr. Stursberg, and Monsieur Lafrance. Thank you for being here today to speak with us about your plans for CBC/Radio-Canada and how CBC/Radio-Canada is fulfilling its mandate for Canadians.

Before we begin, I would like to remind members of the relationship that CBC/Radio-Canada enjoys with the federal government. CBC/Radio-Canada is an arm's-length crown corporation whose independence is legislated in the Broadcasting Act. I won't read that yet; let's hope we don't have to get there.

We welcome your words.

3:35 p.m.

Hubert T. Lacroix President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, members of the committee.

Thank you for your invitation to come and talk with you today about CBC/Radio-Canada's plans and priorities. We appreciate your interest in, and your support of, public broadcasting.

Before moving on to the main topic of our meeting this afternoon, I would like to take a few moments to talk about your recent study on the mandate of CBC/Radio-Canada.

Since becoming President and CEO, I have spent a lot of time listening, reflecting on written materials and ideas, talking with our employees and meeting with various stakeholders who work in our broadcasting environment, and focusing on the issues that are currently confronting your national public broadcaster.

Obviously, I have also read your report and its 47 recommendations. I must tell you that I find many of your conclusions and recommendations absolutely on the mark.

First off, thanks to all of you. Thank you for your efforts and for your success in capturing the views expressed by Canadians across the country about public broadcasting and CBC/Radio-Canada. In doing so, you have highlighted the importance of public broadcasting in our country and the belief, which I strongly share, that CBC/Radio-Canada should continue to play a pivotal role in the social, cultural, and democratic life of this country.

It is particularly significant that so many of your report's conclusions are unanimous. Interestingly, you clearly recognize the importance of secure funding for the corporation over more than its current twelve-month cycles. And your call for a cost of living adjustment to this funding is a necessary first step toward stable funding.

Most importantly, this committee has made a clear call for a new relationship between CBC/Radio-Canada and Canadians. I cannot overstate the importance of the MOU proposal.

This document will clarify for all Canadians the services we will provide and the resources necessary to do that, thus allowing us to meet their expectations. It will enable CBC/Radio-Canada to evolve as a critical cultural institution in this country, according to the needs and objectives identified by the government and by Parliament.

This is imperative. If public broadcasting is to remain relevant in the modern broadcasting environment, it cannot stand still or offer a less compelling package of services to Canadians. Its competitors are not. Their new programs, products, and technological offerings are not. Consequently, status quo is unacceptable for your national public broadcaster. CBC/Radio-Canada must move forward. It must adapt to the changing cultural diversity of Canada. It must be flexible.

I believe your MOU proposal will enable us to do so. It will enable us to meet the needs of Canadians in an effective manner and to be accountable for it.

From an operational viewpoint, an MOU based on a seven-year period is the framework that we need. This longer-run horizon will enable us to plan more efficiently, organize ourselves more effectively, better forecast capital spending, re-think our infrastructure, and therefore link our strategic objectives to our resources over the entire seven-year period.

Overall, your report is a blueprint for action and we are ready to work immediately with the government to begin developing the memorandum. We, like you, are looking forward to the government's response to your report at the end of June.

However, I would like to emphasize the urgency of implementing your recommendations and, in particular, putting in place the MOU. The CRTC's proceedings on the renewal of our seven-year licences will likely take place in the second half of 2009. In the interests of good governance and efficient planning for all of the services we offer to Canadians, the contents of the MOU should set the stage for the CRTC proceedings. We therefore suggest that work on the drafting of the MOU begin as soon as possible.

Let me move to our plans and priorities. In the four months since I became president and CEO, I have begun a number of formal initiatives that I believe are vital for our company. All of these initiatives are focused around three key priorities: our people, our programs, and the need for this company to push forward strategically if it is to meet the challenges of its environment. Thus, all of our actions and decisions will revolve around these three Ps--people, programs, and pushing forward--all in one national public broadcaster.

At CBC/Radio-Canada, everything we do--TV, radio, digital content, programming ideas, and journalistic excellence--depends on the creativity, intelligence, and dedication of our employees. Our people are therefore key to our success. We will only succeed if they are engaged and supportive of our direction and initiatives.

In January I began meeting regularly with employees from across the company. So far I have visited various facilities and departments from Vancouver to Quebec City. I have sat in breakfast meetings with small groups, listened to presentations, walked the floors, and spent time in mobile units and production facilities. I will continue to do so throughout my term.

What I am discovering is that not only do our employees have a commitment to excellence in public broadcasting and a passion for CBC/Radio-Canada, but they are also committed to change, as they all realize what is happening to our environment. They're ready for this. They are willing to embrace this. We need to show them how to get there. They understand that if we don't keep up with the rapidly changing environment, we will be left behind.

Harnessing the enthusiasm for change that our employees have expressed is essential in helping to shape our strategic directions - not just within each department, media line or linguistic side of the company, but across the entire company and each of its components.

Because, while CBC/Radio-Canada carries out numerous activities, is present on numerous platforms and works in a very big country, we often forget that we are part of one company. We must think and act as a single entity if we want to achieve our strategic objectives.

This way of acting provides us with numerous advantages and permits us to distinguish ourselves from our competition. Let me give you a concrete example of this.

When I was in Vancouver, our news team there had just produced a story on the use of tasers by police. The journalist was a bilingual francophone based in British Columbia. The cameraman was a bilingual anglophone working for Radio-Canada. The researcher and radio producer were anglophones living in Toronto who worked for the CBC.

Their story ran that evening on both French and English national television networks. The following morning, it was adapted for English and French national radio. There was more in-depth information on our French and English websites, including streaming audio and video and podcasts. In the end, their story was picked up by other news organizations around the world.

The point is that by working together, pooling these strengths and resources, we provided, in this case, a much better service to Canadians, a service that no other broadcasting entity can offer in this country. Great things do actually happen when we work together. This is where we become distinctive, this is where we have an edge, and this is what your national public broadcaster will exploit.

As I indicated, strengthening this aspect of our operations is now one of our key priorities.

You have recently finished studying our mandate. You know that the broadcasting industry is defined by change: changing technology, changing audiences, changing demographics, thus changing demands on the public broadcaster.

You also know, as we do, that when it comes to their public broadcaster, not all Canadians are comfortable with change. You have heard some of the reaction we've had to our upcoming changes to Radio 2, and to the CBC orchestra. We are very sensitive to that. But we cannot shy away, and will not shy away, from making the tough choices and consequently effecting the changes that we think are necessary for us to serve all Canadians.

In a few weeks, CBC/Radio-Canada will showcase our athletes as they compete against the best in the world at the Summer Olympics in Beijing. It is the pinnacle of our commitment to Canadian athletes all year round. For some years now, we have been the recognized leader in developing new and more efficient and effective technology for our coverage of the Olympic Games. This is one of the ways in which our expertise clearly stands out.

At the same time, we must continue to use our limited resources in our daily operations in a way that ensures our services remain relevant to the changing needs of Canadians.

We are currently trying to find the resources we need to enhance our services, to make the transition to digital and high-definition television, and to make more programs. Our appropriation is lower today, in real terms--actually $400 million lower--than it was 15 years ago, yet the number of platforms on which we are expected to deliver our services continues to grow, and the cost of making programming has exploded. We have to adjust, but we can't stop innovating or taking risks. We need to make sure that the widest range of unique Canadian programming is available to Canadians when and how they want it. In this regard, the Canadian Television Fund is a crucial resource.

While I am the president and CEO of this organization, we will pursue this creative agenda as one company, building bridges between our employees, building bridges between Canadians, innovating and serving the interests of all in this country.

We will now be pleased to answer your questions.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger

Thank you for that presentation.

Our first question will come from Mr. Coderre.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, it's a pleasure to meet you. As was said when the microphone was off, I've always enjoyed your basketball analyses. As a former minister of sport, however, I would say I'm not sure there are 365 days of sport a year, at either CBC or Radio-Canada. We could talk about La Soirée du hockey. Let me tell you that it will take more than Passion sports and La zone.

The financial management of the CBC is completely different from that of Radio-Canada. If I can be allowed one brief comment, I would ask you to invest more in amateur sport. That doesn't necessarily mean bringing back the program Les Héros du samedi, but you have to take advantage of the fact that you'll have the Olympic Games. I thank you for the work you've done with regard to China, particularly when an attempt was made to censor the site.

I'm going to talk to you about governance. I completely disagree with you when you say this is one company; CBC/Radio-Canada isn't one company. It's an institution whose mandate is to bring peoples together. You are a window on what Canada should represent and you should pay attention to the words that are used. There must be more transparency and respect and you must ensure that the attitude is one of bringing people together and not contemptuous, like the one we sensed in the Claude Dubois affair.

I'd like to talk to you about respect. It seems that your employees have a problem with absenteeism, deep depression and drug use, as a result of which workshops have to be given on respect, which will cost nearly $1 million.

How much does the federal government subsidy amount to? Why do Radio-Canada employees need a workshop on respect? I suppose CBC employees will need one as well.

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Hubert T. Lacroix

Good afternoon, Mr. Coderre. It's a pleasure for me to meet you officially. I appeared in December, and you were not yet on the committee. Incidentally, I very much believed in the program Les Héros du samedi, because I worked on it.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Bravo!

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Hubert T. Lacroix

It's a pleasure for me to talk to you about our workshops on respect. This extraordinary initiative is the result of a joint effort by the union and management parties of Radio-Canada. In 2005, an employee survey was conducted, and we identified three causes of discomfort in Radio-Canada's working environment: respect, work recognition and workload.

We immediately got down to work. We called in Mr. Brun, an individual from the outside, a well-known teacher. He helped us build a program. To introduce that program, we trained 90 individuals, 45 managers and 45 union representatives, who gave the respect workshops. To date, nearly 6,500 of our employees, both anglophone and francophone, have taken those workshops. In fact, we've built 472 workshops.

Yesterday I spoke with Ms. Francine Durocher, one of the CUPE vice-presidents in Montreal. She has worked at Radio-Canada for 38 years, and she alone gave 84 of those respect workshops. We really believe in them. It's a major investment for our business.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

How much?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Hubert T. Lacroix

The investment amounts to nearly $1 million, $250,000 of which comes from the six unions and $100,000 from a federal government grant under the employer-employee partnership program. The rest of the money comes from Radio-Canada.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Do we need workshops in order to get respect? Will that also include television hosts? I would propose Don Cherry.

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Hubert T. Lacroix

I assure you that our workshops on respect are recognized as places where people work hard. They learn things there. Through this exercise, I really hope to improve the day-to-day work of our employees.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Is that working?

I'm a major consumer of CBC/Radio-Canada programs and I often take part in them, while respecting the independence of the programming.

Was it justified to send a letter of apology to Ms. Fabienne Larouche? Isn't that a disavowal of Guy A. Lepage? I saw the interview of Ms. Chantal Fontaine, and I didn't see the point of throwing a little left hook at the people on Tout le monde en parle. Since it's televised, viewers want to know.

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Hubert T. Lacroix

Mr. Coderre, that kind of question concerns our programming and the way we manage our business, as well as the independence we show in our day-to-day activities.

Mr. Chairman, allow me not to answer that question. I believe that would be justified.