Canadian Heritage Committee on May 1st, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I realize that, too, and the time is up right now--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I'll send you a letter of apology, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We will move to Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here to answer our questions.

You mentioned the Olympic Games. I can't help but ask you the following question. Out of respect for human rights, to make a gesture toward China's attitude, are you going to refrain from broadcasting the opening of the Olympic Games?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Once again, that's a question concerning programming. That's a decision for the vice-presidents. We'll make that decision at the appropriate time, if there is a change in the normal course of our business, Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

From what I understand, programming is not at all influenced by the department.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Exactly. A major provision on the independence of Radio-Canada contained in the Broadcasting Act prevents the department, parliamentary committees and any other—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

It's really your decision.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Absolutely.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I'd like us to talk about the Access to Information Act.

Your corporation has a very high profile. You must surely get a lot of access to information requests. How many employees have you assigned to that task? Are they qualified? Have they received training? Based on the information I have, three employees handle those requests, two on a full-time basis. Is that correct?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Allow me to give you some information on our access to information program.

Since September 2007, when our corporation became subject to the Access to Information Act, we've received 580 requests. To put that in perspective, the Crown corporation that receives the next largest number of requests receives 60. There's even someone in Ottawa who's making a business out of it. He asks us questions and then sells the information he's obtained. Two hundred and sixty of those requests have been met and 75 are waiting for a reply. That gives you an idea of the scope of the task.

We've added resources because we were surprised by the volume. Eleven employees work in our access to information department. Just yesterday we announced the hiring of a new director, who comes from National Defence, and who has a lot of experience, to help us resolve the requests under the Access to Information Act.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right.

From what I understand, people sometimes have to wait six months before getting an answer to a request. The act provides for a period of 30 days, and notice has to be given if you want to extend that deadline. I've been told that, in the case of a number of requests, no delay notice was even sent and that that is quite common.

Can we say that that's in the past, or that the past is an indication of what's to come?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I can assure you that we have no intention of not being transparent in handling requests. That's definitely not the way we currently handle requests. We were surprised by the volume. We're trying to solve this problem, and that's why we've just hired new employees.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right.

I have another question about the Access to Information Act. One citizen told me that he had made an access to information request in March or April of this year concerning an agreement reached between Radio-Canada and La Presse in 2000 or 2001. He was told that the agreement had been lost, then that there was no agreement. Ultimately, he received a letter of intent concerning the contract between Radio-Canada and La Presse.

That's quite recent. That person is still waiting for the agreement. In fact, this shows that there are some problems with access to information requests at Radio-Canada.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I explained to you that 73 of the 580 requests that we've received are pending. The other 150 or 170 are not closed files and are also part of the process. I'm not aware—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

—of that specific case.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

—of that specific case. If you want to send me a copy, I'll be pleased to follow it up.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well.

Do I still have some time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

No. We'll move now to Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for being with us, Mr. Lacroix, Mr. Lafrance, and Mr. Stursberg. I appreciate that you have come today.

I noticed, as did Mr. Coderre, the change in language that I think is evident in your opening statement, in which you were referring to the CBC as a company, not as the corporation or some other language term. I suspect you've done that rather deliberately, and probably there is an interesting discussion to be had there. I'm not sure I like the change, but that's not where I want to focus my questions this afternoon.

There are some things in your statement that I agree with. You talk about the CBC being a critical cultural institution in Canada, and I don't think anyone here would deny that. You talk about how the CBC provides a service that no other broadcasting entity can offer, and I think there's no disagreement around the table here about that. You talk about building bridges to your audiences and to the community across Canada, and again, there is no argument there.

However, I think one piece of your audience right now is feeling as though the bridge has been blown up, shall I say, and those are certainly the folks who have enjoyed the classical music services of the CBC for many years, particularly on CBC Radio 2. I know you've probably heard from many of them; I know I have, and I know that many of them are organized on Facebook, for instance, where I think 15,000 of them are protesting the changes at CBC.

You talk about key Canadian cultural institutions, and for many of us from the Vancouver area the CBC Radio Orchestra is one of those key cultural institutions. In fact, it's one of the few national cultural institutions that exist outside eastern Canada, and one that I think many people in Vancouver and the lower mainland guard very jealously as a result.

I think other people as well have been concerned about the ongoing commitment to the development of classical performers and composers in Canada with the demise of the CBC's Young Composers Competition, for instance, and all the changes at Radio 2. I think most listeners who are interested in classical music see that as a very significant downgrading of that service.

There are lots of folks who are concerned about that. There are people in the cities, because most of our cities don't have a commercial classical music option. It's not something the private sector is doing--there are some in, I believe, Montreal and Toronto, but outside of that I don't think there are. There are certainly no commercially available classical musical stations in rural Canada, and rural Canadians have depended almost exclusively on the CBC for classical music.

They want to know why. Why this abandonment of the classical music constituency? Why this abandonment of faithful listeners who are probably among the CBC's most devoted fans? Why in particular in Vancouver, where Radio 2 had its greatest success in the country, and where its listening audience is already declining sharply? Why, Mr. Lacroix?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Siksay, thank you for allowing me to address these two important questions. I know they've been on your mind, and they've been on the minds of everybody, particularly but not exclusively in the western part of Canada.

Let me deal with this in two blocks; first off, the block about Radio 2. We consider that our commitment to culture is to respect the full musical diversity of this country. Consequently, this exercise that everybody thinks we are doing, which the media have called “the dumbing down of Radio 2”, is not that at all.

We hope these changes will open Radio 2 to more genres of music, and that Radio 2 will become the greatest showcase for Canadian music in the country. We hope we will expose older people of this country to music that is current—not only classical music. However, classical music won't disappear. It will still be the most important genre of music on Radio 2. We have to remember this.

We would also like to remind people that as we are changing we are going to do more with Radio 2. You said you were concerned about the lack of classical music. In September, we are going to be able to stream, 24/7, classical music in one of our services. This is new. It's going to be added to other streaming initiatives. So Radio 2, we hope, is going to become a very important showcase.

As for the orchestra, it was introduced in 1938. It was a great orchestra, and its purpose was to stimulate the creation of arts and the artistic infrastructure in Canada. At that time, content was needed on radio. Live-to-air performances were what happened with orchestras of this kind. There were about 70 radio orchestras in North America.

We have to be very understanding of what's going on. With the resources we have, we think we have expanded the use of a radio orchestra. For every concert that we put on with our CBC orchestra, we can record three from other symphony orchestras in Canada. There are 46 of these other symphony orchestras that we would like to open to Canadians as they listen to Canadian music.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Abbott.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us here today.

I was just looking at the Broadcasting Act:

The Corporation shall, in the pursuit of its objects and in the exercise of its powers, enjoy freedom of expression and journalistic, creative and programming independence.

I think you've seen commendable restraint on the part of my colleagues. Certainly, you'll hear from us that we are not here to program CBC.

I have a couple of questions. I'm wondering about the connection you believe there might be between the CBC, which is sponsored in large part by the Canadian taxpayer, and the fact that the Canadian taxpayer also sponsors or finances publishers, writers, people like that. I'm wondering about a decision that historically has evolved over time. I'm wondering where you're going with it.

Our good friend Peter Gzowski probably sold more Canadian books than anyone in the history of Canada. On Morningside, it was a delight for many Canadians who wanted to listen to him and get that kind of input.

There are programs that the radio continues to use, but there is a diminishing of them. I'm wondering if you would agree that maybe there is a place for the CBC. It's unique, non-commercial. You can get on and talk about books and promote Canadian ideas. On CBC we're talking to ourselves through our own books and our own medium. Those publishers, those printers, those writers, the Canada Council and their programs—all are sponsored by the same sponsor you have.

What is the place of CBC radio with respect to helping to expose Canadians to Canadian authors?

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Abbott, it's about culture. Authors, music, dance, sports--these are all about what we are. Our mandate is to make sure we promote Canadian culture to Canadians, that they can see, in all of the services we render, themselves, that they can understand. And in an environment like ours, where we have a very changing landscape in Canada, we have to make sure that we can understand who the public is and that their desires and needs are changing.

To go back to the example, whether it's authors or music, Radio 2 is not about making classical music disappear. It's about sharing the airwaves among different genres of music. It's about exploding what we do and what we do well--for example, a very good host taking you on a Radio 2 journey through something, which was classical music, repeating this experience, and making it available to all sorts of listeners on different platforms with different aspects of our culture.

So yes, there is a place for this.

[Richard Stursberg, Executive Vice-President, English Services, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]

Let me just add a word.

CBC radio remains absolutely committed to books. Just as you were talking, I was counting the number of shows we have. At this point we have, I think, two shows that are devoted completely to books. And books also are an important staple of Shelagh Rogers' show and of Q, Jian Ghomeshi's show. As you may know, we've relaunched a television channel, to have a sort of higher arts channel, called Bold TV. Our plan is also to put a talk show about books onto that channel.

We had last February, for a week, Canada Reads, which is, as you know, the great competition we have to try to figure out which is the book. This year it turned out to be Paul Quarrington's book.

So we are completely committed to radio and to books. We know from the booksellers that probably one of the most important things that can happen for a book is to actually get picked up and become part of something like Canada Reads.

I can tell you that, ideally, it would be very desirable for us to go further with books than we are even now, but our commitment is absolutely sympathetic.