Canadian Heritage Committee on March 30th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Order.

We are discussing committee business today.

We have a motion by Mr. Del Mastro:

That the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage calls to appear, at its earliest convenience, the following representatives from the Canada Council for the Arts: director, Robert Sirman; chairperson, Joseph L. Rotman; and vice-chair, Simon Brault, to provide information regarding the $13 million the Canada Council for the Arts has allocated to provide funds and resources to the arts community for international promotion and touring, and that the findings be reported back to the House and the vote be a public vote.

Would you like to speak to the motion, Mr. Del Mastro?

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As committee members well know, the intent behind this was that there were a number of recommendations that the committee members would like affixed to a report with respect to the Trade Routes and PromArt programs. Although PromArt is not a file handled by the Department of Canadian Heritage, they would like to make recommendations in that regard.

I'd like to bring the Canada Council forward to talk about the additional investments that we've made into artists to demonstrate that we have stood up and supported artists very significantly and that there's a significant amount of money going into.... That's the broader issue. Obviously, the direct issue is with respect to international touring. I'd like them to talk about the money that they are providing vis-à-vis the significant additional investments that we've provided to the Canada Council. I think it's important that we get this on the public record and that Canadians hear what the Canada Council has to say on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I'm beginning to feel like I'm cast in that movie Groundhog Day. I mean, we had this whole discussion last week.

If we want to have the discussion again, we can. I fully support bringing the Canada Council here; I think it's an excellent idea. But having just agreed to work on the television industry crisis and with everyone agreeing this is a priority, I'm surprised this motion is being brought back.

We had a study on the issue of the effects of touring cuts. All parties were able to bring forward witnesses. It was an open witness list. Nobody from the Conservatives, at that time, thought the Canada Council should be there.

People directly spoke about the Canada Council arts funding in one hearing, and they said that contrary to what was being promoted by the government, the Canada Council funding was not replacing the loss. Nobody from the Conservative Party on the committee at that time challenged that testimony.

We're now at the final stages of a report, based on testimony we heard and the agreement of how many witnesses we would have, and certainly nobody from the Conservatives wanted to extend it for more than two and a half days of hearings.

I would suggest that we finish the business at hand and then, when time allows, we'll certainly have the Canada Council, because I think we would have a full, good session with them, on many issues.

I would support this motion at a later date.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Bruinooge and then Ms. Lavallée.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to speak in support of this motion. I think it's integral to bring the Canada Council in so we can hear exactly what the parliamentary secretary has indicated: clearly they have invested a lot of money in supporting international promotion for artists.

I think one of the reasons Mr. Angus would support them coming in later, to some extent, is that it would undermine this report that's about to be presented. In light of the fact that this report is being wrapped up, I think it's essential that we have this counterpoint as early as possible .

It would be nice to see them come in the next couple of weeks. I think it would be a good time for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

Ms. Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I think it's extremely important that we meet the Canada Council people, especially if some of their grant programs can replace those that were cut. I'm definitely going to ask them that question. I'm going to talk to them about specific issues, such as the Grands Ballets Canadiens, whose members want to go to the Middle East. I'm going to ask them which program could address that. I'm sure that, if they give me a positive answer, that will make for a lot of happy artists, creators and all those who have foreign tour plans.

I don't know when that will be possible. If Mr. Del Mastro could make it so we have some time, at some point, I would be prepared to look into that. Of course, we would have preferred to know sooner, but I'm pleased at the idea of meeting these people. They're going to be able to tell us which programs they offer. Let's remember that artists have appeared and told us that the council had programs, but that they weren't compatible. We'll see what the situation is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Madam Dhalla.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I think it is important to hear from them, to provide us with an insight of what types of programs they are providing. And in regard to the cuts that took place, I think it is important to hear how the people who have lost funding, either organizations or individuals, would benefit from the programs the Canada Council has at the moment.

Perhaps one option the committee may want to consider is that we do a written set of questions and ask them to provide that information in writing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

It seems that we have some broad agreement that people would like to hear from the Canada Council.

I would recommend an extra sitting of the committee. I don't care if it's a Monday or Wednesday, or a Tuesday or Thursday, or even a later session of the committee. It doesn't need to interfere with the television hearing. I'd recommend an extra session of the committee as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I thought there was nothing scheduled for Wednesday. I have a motion to the effect that we meet with Mr. Hubert Lacroix, from CBC/Radio-Canada. We are bringing plans forward, but I believe that Mr. Lacroix won't be available. I'm not sure of that; that still has to be confirmed. If he were available, a slot would be free. Perhaps we could meet with the Canada Council people in the first hour and complete our report in the second.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I don't know if that would be considerate to call them, literally, on a day and a half's notice, because you have some members of their board in Montreal, some in Toronto, and some in various other places. If they could accommodate that, great; but if not, immediately after the break, we could certainly accommodate them with additional meeting times.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess I'm getting a little confused here, Mr. Chair. I thought we would be finalizing our report on Wednesday. That report was brought forward by Madame Lavallée. We've done all of this study, so I'm surprised that we're now not looking at doing that and are going on to talk about her next motion.

We have to finish the business. It doesn't matter to me how we finish the business, but I want this report done, because it's going to look silly that we've already forgotten about the report and then are going on to other parts of it and bringing in new witnesses. So either we are ready to finish the report—which we were going to do as of last week—and finalize it on Wednesday, or we're going to start bringing in new witnesses and then finalize the report. Or perhaps we're going to finalize the report and then bring in new witnesses--I'm not sure.

We need to have a little bit of clarity here, because we're now starting a whole new report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I'm going to ask Marion to address that question.

[Marion Ménard, Committee Researcher]

I would just let you know that the draft of the report will be available at the end of the day, because we just received the translation...when?

[Michael Dewing, Committee Researcher]

This afternoon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Yes, I think we have to keep that in mind, because it was the business of the day on Wednesday to finalize this, and we knew it would be coming forward. If we can go over the draft report, we can then decide.

The other couple of issues we have here today include the finalization of the report—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

So we need to finish this report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Yes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

If people want to hear from the Canada Council and do that for another hour, or whatever, later, I don't mind. But we'll look like a bush league if we've agreed to a witness list, we've heard testimony, we're finalizing a report, and then we want to start doing something else.

So I'd like to finalize this report. If we're going to hear from the Canada Council at another time, fit it in, as long as it doesn't interfere with what we're doing on the television report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I would just suggest that it's unfair to our analysts to have two, three, or four irons in the fire at the same time.