Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 24th, 2009

[A voice]

Ontario, yes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Quebec?

[A voice]

Yes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

So, Antonio, you said that only people who have served on organizations can represent the community. That's what you said earlier. My father was in this country. My uncle, my aunts, have all been in this country and worked very hard. They are not members of your association. My father has passed away. What's the total membership in all your organizations combined? Is it 100,000 Italians?

[Antonio Sciascia]

Two million.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

How much is your membership?

[Antonio Sciascia]

Listen, we have 1.5 million Italian Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

There's a point of order over here.

[A voice]

Can I answer that question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

There's a point of order over here, please.

Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I would ask Mr. Calandra to treat these eminent Italian Canadians, our guests, with more respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

A point of order, Ms. Minna, and then Mr. Del Mastro.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I need to be clear. The membership is through organizations, not directly to the congress. This is an umbrella organization. The organization I was the president of, involved with for 20 years, COSTI, $31 million, Canada's largest immigrant service agency, with all of their members, is a member of the congress as an organization. This has to be clear.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

That was my question, Mr. Chair--the total membership of all of the organizations put together.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Del Mastro, we're getting a little out of order. We only have a half a minute left for Mr. Calandra.

Mr. Del Mastro has a point of order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

There is nothing inappropriate with Mr. Calandra asking them to give the number of members, not the size of the Italian diaspora—I know what that is in Canada—but the number of members. We have heard testimony from the witnesses that the people who are cooperating with CHRP, who are working on the historical recognition program, are not representative of the Italian community. How can you make that assertion if you don't represent 100% of the Italian community? That's the point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

A point of order has been made.

Is it a point of order, Madam Lavallée?

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It is about my point of order, Mr. Chairman, concerning Mr. Calandra's lack of respect for our guests and Mr. Del Mastro's answer.

Members are free to ask any question they want, but they have to do so in a respectful manner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I think I heard nothing disrespectful and I go to Mr. Calandra to clarify his question, if he would, please.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know you said I have 30 seconds left, so I'm going to move on.

My point was that I don't believe that all those Italians who are not members of your organizations in total are any less responsible or any less Italian or any less deserving of being represented because they're not members of your organization.

Let me ask this one last question. I'm going to assume, and I know you all do, that the office of the Prime Minister.... It's safe to say that you all respect the office of the Prime Minister. So when the Prime Minister of Canada says “This kind of behaviour was not then, is not now, and never will be acceptable in a civilized nation that purports to respect the rule of law, and on behalf of the Government and people of Canada, I offer a full and unqualified apology for the wrongs done to our fellow Canadians of Italian origin during World War II”, how can you not--

[Antonio Sciascia]

Why don't you do it in Parliament? Do it in Parliament.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

How can you not respect that if you accept and respect the office of the Prime Minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

We've got two minutes left, and I'm going to leave it to our witness to respond.

[Michael Stante]

Very briefly, I don't see how the Italian community should accept any less than the apology that was given to other communities, and that is an apology in the House of Commons. It's something that isn't new to this government. We've been asking for this for many years, and even following then Prime Minister Mulroney's statement.

And you referred to these three members who are not members of our organization. In fact, they are members of the congress. They are. We can actually tell you those three people are members of the national congress. What Mr. Sciascia said, in fact, was that they were not people who were involved in this process for the past 20 years. So I would beg to ask the question of you, why would the government choose to name three people to a committee that is so important to the resolution of this issue, if that's what it believes, who have had absolutely nothing to do with the process in over 20 years? Why would you do that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, I think the point's been made, the questions have been asked.

The meeting is adjourned.