Canadian Heritage Committee on March 11th, 2009

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I already know the answers, go ahead.

[Judith LaRocque]

For book exports, for example, there is $4.8 million from the Department of Canadian Heritage to assist book exporters. At the NFB, there is $900,000, no doubt to assist in promoting documentaries internationally. At Telefilm Canada, there's $1.9 million specifically to ensure a Canadian presence at the biennial events in Germany, at the Cannes Film Festival, and there is $1.8 million at FACTOR and the Musicaction Foundation for international music, and that's in addition to $13 million available at the Canada Council specifically for tours. I should add that there is still $5 million in the Trade Routes program this year.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

In all, what you've told me—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Ms. Lavallée, we've gone over time.

Mr. Angus, please.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

On a point of order, could she table that information, please, with the details?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

[Judith LaRocque]

That would be the various options for people to apply?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes, and where we can find more details on it.

[Judith LaRocque]

Sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Angus, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

You said that when you checked it out, you would see whether the private sector or the volunteer sector can do a better job and whether we need these programs.

Can you tell me who in the volunteer sector is going to pay for the representatives at the Cheongju International Craft Festival that's taking place in Korea, where Canada has been the host country? Canada was chosen as the host country, and what we're being told is that they're scrambling to address your department's having pulled funding from them and that we're looking a bit like international clowns right now because there is no funding.

[Judith LaRocque]

In the example I gave of looking to the voluntary sector, I was talking about the general review of our program. Often we will look to the voluntary sector. For example—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

So did you—yes or no?

[Judith LaRocque]

In this particular case, I'm not sure whether we did.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I don't want to be upset with you; you have to work for the Conservative government—my deep sympathies there. But when the minister came here, he told us clearly that these were wasteful programs, that this is bureaucratically heavy.

I was actually thinking that we'd find out, and yet you come here and give us a six-year-old report and tell us that everything else is classified—sacrosanct, you said. Sacrosanct means nothing, if you cannot justify on paper why a minister told this committee that this was a bureaucratic, wasteful program, andyet you come in here and tell us it's the Cuban missile crisis, that these are secrets.

There's nothing secretive about producing clear evidence to a committee to say yes, look—what does it say here in the informative report...?

Excuse me; this is a very old report, but it's all you gave us.

It says how Trade Routes is positive, “providing substantial and necessary support for the growth of the arts”; that it's “a flexible program”, that it was “market-driven”. These are the reports you gave us, and then you tell us you can't talk about anything else.

Do you have anything to justify this program's having been cut, anything at all to show us?

[Judith LaRocque]

Certainly. Essentially, the Trade Routes program was determined to be too costly to run in relation to the amount of money it provided directly to arts organizations.

The structure of maintaining five cultural trade offices in five locations internationally was very expensive, and it limited our ability to respond to new priorities and emerging markets.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

But you have not taken the money and said let's get rid of the overall part, but let's make sure we have money for touring. We're being told by the Montreal ballet that they're shutting up shop. Either they came here and were lying to us or there's a serious hole in the operation.

We're not seeing a program out there, and you're saying go to the Canada Council. Well, that's almost all domestic touring. What have you done specifically to say that this was a cost-heavy program, and here's something that will work as an alternative?

[Judith LaRocque]

Trade Routes never provided funding for touring. PromArt provided funding for touring. PromArt belongs to another department. It belongs to the Department of Foreign Affairs, who went through their own strategic review exercise and made their own recommendations to their minister.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

We heard very clearly that Trade Routes is an essential program. We have not seen any piece of evidence to show that it was wasteful, other than words from you, or the fact that the government's priority.... You keep jumping back to priorities. I understand that; this is a government that has been against the exportation of cultural products since the beginning. But we're seeing that we're moving money over for a torch relay. We're moving over to a torch relay....

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I just realized that these are government officials here, and they're not going to take political questions.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I fully understand, Mr. Chair, but they're telling us it's government priorities. I at least appreciate that. We're seeing that the priority is that supporting the export of our cultural industries is something they were against and they're moving the money over to a torch relay.

Are we to go back to the Montreal ballet and La La La Human Steps and everyone else who's come before us and say, sorry, but a single torch relay is more important than the 20 years that La La La Human Steps has spent creating and building an audience?

I have not seen anything. I was expecting that you would bring something to show us that this was a wasteful program. Then we could say now we understand. But you're telling us it's all a cabinet secret. You have to do better, if you're going to provide cover for your minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Is that a statement? Are you finished with your statement?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for appearing today.