Canadian Heritage Committee on March 21st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Madame Lavallée.

We have a motion on the floor in front of us. We'll have a discussion for 10 minutes. If we can't resolve this discussion in 10 minutes and have a vote on it, we'll proceed to Mr. Angus' motion, and I'll set time aside at our next meeting to continue debate on Madame Lavallée's motion.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's a very straightforward motion. It's not complicated. It doesn't require any new amount. The $60 million is there. It's renewed every year. The money they need for their five-year program is the same amount they said when they were asking.... I think logically we should support it. That's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

As the minister made clear and I made clear here at committee, we support the CBC's five-year plan. We've also made it clear to Canadians that we will provide stable or increased funding to the CBC each and every year. That's what we've done. The statement is government policy. I see no reason either to support it or to vote against it. It's government policy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Del Mastro.

Is there any further discussion or debate on this motion? Seeing none, I'll call the question.

All those in favour of Madame Lavallée's motion?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you, Madame Lavallée.

We'll now go to the consideration of the notice of motion by Mr. Angus.

Mr. Angus, could you move and read your motion?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move my motion that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage examine the role of Sports Canada and amateur sports associations in addressing the rising incidence rates of traumatic brain and spinal cord injuries in amateur and youth athletics.

By way of bringing forward this motion, we do, within this committee, have the twin roles of culture and sports programs. We have not tended to look at them because it hasn't come up. I think many Canadians are concerned about the rising level of injuries. There is certainly a perception, whether it's true or not, that Mr. Bettman and the NHL have not shown leadership on this.

When I'm in my riding, what I'm hearing from people is the concern on how it's affecting amateur sports. What do we need to know about this? What steps are being taken? I think we could look at this in a thorough but also a positive role and say, let's hear from the experts. Let's see what we're doing to make sure that for hockey, and for other sports as well, if they're involved, when young people go out to play, they're going out to play and have fun and not to get hurt. If there need to be steps taken to ensure that, then that is I think within the purview of this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Angus, for moving your motion and speaking to it.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Even though it's a bit removed from what the committee normally does, it is still an extremely important and current subject. This phenomenon is hidden from view, but it resurfaces when a vicious blow is struck by a National Hockey League player, for example the one that Chara inflicted on Pacioretty. That reminds us of the situation in the NHL, but that situation also exists in amateur sports. Unfortunately, we have seen a lot of children injured and even paralyzed, in some cases, as a result of blows to the head.

Personally, I am in favour of these kinds of studies. I would also like to hear my colleague Ken Dryden, who has a lot to say on this subject, and also Mr. Molson.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I want to support this as well.

I think Canadians from coast to coast to coast have been outraged by some of what we've seen on television. We saw a terrible hit to the head again last night in a hockey game. It doesn't seem that the message is getting through. I went to a senior AAA hockey game in Peterborough on Friday night and saw a boarding that easily could have been called hitting to the head, but it was a horrible five-minute boarding penalty. We're seeing people copy what they're seeing on television.

It was reprehensible, not just the hit that we saw in Montreal, which Zdeno Chara was on one end of giving.... I want to put on the record what bothered me most about it. It's extraordinary when you see sponsors indicating that they're considering pulling back sponsorship for something, but I thought the commissioner of the NHL in his response to that was insulting to the feelings of Canadians. This is our national sport. I thought he demonstrated an arrogance in his answer that wasn't fitting.

Canadians are concerned about some of these things they see happening in their game. Those things are not part of the game. The game has always been tough. It has always been competitive. It has always demonstrated a lot of what we hold dear and how we define ourselves as Canadians, but it's never been cheap, and some of this stuff is nothing but cheap shots.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Del Mastro.

Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you.

I would first like to say that the Bloc Québécois will support the motion. My colleague Pablo Rodriguez referred to professional hockey. I don't think that should be part of our committee's study, although I think that all our constituents are extremely concerned about violence in professional and minor hockey and in other sports.

Yes, let's do a study. And let's also be mindful of the fact that some parts are under provincial jurisdiction. In Quebec, minor hockey is under the provincial government's jurisdiction. Let's be mindful of that.

I should say in passing that I am concerned about violence in hockey because of the fact that it can also be an extremely aggressive and even dangerous spot if you aren't careful. I played in a women's hockey league for three years. So I know hockey very well.

I would simply like to make a suggestion. Mr. Angus might perhaps agree that we add, at the end, "and report to the House at the earliest opportunity". It seems to me that this would complete the study well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. We have an amendment that's been moved to the main motion. Is there any debate on the amendment before we go back to the main motion?

If there's no further debate, I'll call the question on the amendment.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I want to respond. Just so we're clear here, I wouldn't say I'm the worst hockey player that was ever born in the city of Timmins, but if you look at the top 10 worst hockey players, I'm probably right in the middle. I want to be clear that we are looking at amateur sport, because that is within the purview of what we can do as a committee. However, if our committee wants to hear from the NHL, I think that is also within our right, because they set the standard for what every kid in this country dreams, and if kids are dreaming that going out on the ice and injuring or getting injured permanently for a game is what's coming down at the amateur level, then I think we have to talk, if that's within the decision of our committee.

We're not telling the NHL how to do their business, but we want to know what the effect is at the amateur level.

As far as this amendment is concerned, I'm not sure we're ready to report this to the House immediately. I don't know, but I don't have a problem with it. We can do it. If we are still in the House in 24 or 38 hours, I hope we can start getting some witnesses. I have no problem with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Madame Lavallée, could you repeat your amendment for the benefit of the members of the committee?

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I would say it is a traditional amendment, that reads as follows: "and report to the House at the earliest opportunity". Obviously that is referring to the committee report after the study and not to our motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Is there any further debate on the amendment?

Seeing none, I'll call the question.

(Amendment agreed to)

Thank you very much.

We're now back to the main motion as amended.

Is there any further debate on the main motion?

I see Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I support the intent of the motion. I don't want to start a trend, but I have an amendment to propose as well. It's a very minor amendment, I believe, but one that addresses a couple of small concerns I have.

I simply want to state, first off, that I support the intent of the motion. We have witnessed, as Mr. Del Mastro and others have mentioned, a number of hits recently that really show a lack of respect for fellow hockey players on the ice. It's in particular in hockey; I know it's not the only sport in which we see some of these issues.

Going back to my days as a young guy playing hockey, I can recall seeing teammates suffer from what clearly now we would know to be a concussion, but back in those days, it was, “He had his bell rung.” The trainer would ask, “How many fingers am I holding up?” He'd say, “Uhh, two?” “Okay, then get back out on the ice.”

Now you would clearly not see that kind of thing happening. That's obviously a good thing. It's a good idea that we're looking at studying this.

But I wonder about a couple of words in this motion, and only because I think we're prejudging the facts before we study something. That is, we talk, in the middle of this, about “addressing the rising incidence rates of traumatic” etc. I would like to see the words “rising” and “rates” removed so that it just reads, “in addressing the incidence of traumatic brain and spinal cord injuries”. It's only because I wonder whether we're prejudging what we would find in a study. I really struggle with making a prejudgment on what we would find. I support the intent, but this is my concern.

I would propose the amendment that we remove the words “rising” and “rates” that are book-ending the word “incidence”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have an amendment in front of us.

Is there any further debate on the amendment?

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm not going to have a problem with that, because I think we need to move on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The wording came, however, from the fact, if you're following what the medical professionals are coming out with, that whether it is that there is a “rising incidence” or that there's a “rising awareness”, there has certainly been a lot in the paper about what seems to be a dramatic jump at the amateur and the professional levels.

But I think the study will take us in that direction, so I'm not going to quibble.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Richards has proposed striking the word “rising” and the word “rates” from the amended motion.

Is there any further debate?

Seeing none, I'll call the question.

(Amendment agreed to)

We're now back to the main motion as twice amended.

We're going to go to Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

First of all, I want to congratulate Mr. Angus. I think this is a very worthy study for us to take on right now. I want to comment, though.

Most of the comments we've made around the table have referred to hockey, because that is what's in the press right now. But I have played and coached many sports for about 34 years now, some at the national level, and concussions and injuries are things that take place in many sports. I'm very pleased to see that we're going to study all sports. Everybody watches Hockey Night in Canada; Canada is a hockey country. But we have youth being put at risk on a daily basis in many, many sports.

In the sport that I still coach this year, basketball, I can tell you that we're having more and more concussions happen simply because of the size, strength, and speed of the athletes today, and the human brain is no thicker than it ever was—in some cases. But the size of the athletes and their physical development is increasing.

I think we'll hear from many experts, if we bring the right experts in. We'll hear some good recommendations on how we as a government can support our sports associations in dealing with these changes in human physiology. I think that's the direction we should go in.

Hockey is not my sport, but I want to say that this is a factor in all sports, or most contact or collision sports. It's not just a hockey problem; it's a problem in all youth sports.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

We're going to go to Madam Crombie, then to Mr. Angus, and then I'll call the vote.

Madam Crombie.