Canadian Heritage Committee on April 20th, 2015

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

Mr. Nantel, you have five minutes.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, allow me to read you the section I was referring to. It is section 48(2) of the Broadcasting Act.

48(2) The Corporation shall not, without the approval of the Governor in Council, enter into (a) any transaction for the acquisition of any real property or the disposition of any real or personal property, other than program material or rights therein, for a consideration in excess of four million dollars or such greater amount as the Governor in Council may by order prescribe; or (b) a lease or other agreement for the use or occupation of real property involving an expenditure in excess of four million dollars or such greater amount as the Governor in Council may by order prescribe.

What I am reading to you is an extract from the act that stipulates that, if the value of the property that the CBC is disposing of exceeds $4 million, you must become involved.

Now, as my Liberal colleague pointed out a little earlier, you can most certainly become involved beforehand and dig a little to see what is going on. At the moment, what is going on is nothing more nor less than the CBC being dismantled. Everyone can see it; everyone knows it.

But, as Minister of Canadian Heritage, you are not using the power you have to at least see what is going on, what is happening. They are not in the process of getting rid of blinds, they are getting rid of trucks, equipment, costumes, and so on. Let me repeat; you are the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Does it not concern you? This is about our heritage.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

First of all, I completely disagree with you.

The CBC receives a billion dollars from our government. That is a lot of money.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

It is $26 per Canadian.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Here are the facts. The government does not make day-to-day decisions for the CBC.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

That's fortunate!

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Frankly, it is the CBC's responsibility to give us details of any sale of $4 million or more. Then we can decide. But we are not going to meddle in that, or infringe on their rights. Hubert Lacroix has rights too. Do you want to take away those rights?

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

No, not at all.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I am not going to do that.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Of course not, but I can well imagine how much it amuses you.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

No, I would like to finish.

He has a team that is going through this exercise in the CBC's interest. I am sorry, but no one can say that it is not in their interest. I believe that Hubert Lacroix has his organization and its needs at heart. The CBC no longer needs that space and has a strategic plan for 2020. Parliament has approved it. You were there. So we are letting them get on with their job.

I am going to ask the deputy minister to help us by providing more details.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

We are all ears, Mr. Flack.

[Graham Flack, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

In a technical sense, it is true that all crown corporations are subject to various limits, beyond which they have to ask for Treasury Board approval

In my experience, the typical practice is for crown corporations to make their case, with all the details. That means that no decisions are made in advance. The Treasury Board or the Governor in Council should actually consider all aspects, including the political ones, not just the finances. For example, if the City of Montreal were to decide that a project of that kind was not acceptable because of municipal regulations, that is the kind of thing that the Treasury Board could consider.

So that is so for every case over $4 million. The request has to be submitted to Treasury Board, but normally that is not done before all the facts and the considerations have been gathered.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you for your very informative answer, Mr. Flack.

I would also like to see the exact total value of the equipment and assets that have been sold off. Right now, it feels like a “for sale” or a “Du Proprio” sign is going right on a building that is part of our heritage. It belongs to all of us. Unfortunately, we know the extent to which the current administration—the Conservative government—has clearly stated on the radio that CBC employees do not share its vision of things.

That is why they are so amused to see that the current system is getting weaker and weaker. That is unacceptable.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I never said that.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Excuse me?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

We never said that.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Let me check what the prime minister said, verbatim.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Nantel, that is a ridiculous thing to say.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Oh, how very respectful of you!

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Really, it is ridiculous.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you for calling my comments “ridiculous”, Ms. Glover.

Personally, I find your current behaviour in these heritage issues to be quite unsatisfactory. When you swamped the agenda of the “Let's Talk TV: a Conversation with Canadians”—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gord Brown]

We're done now. Thank you, Mr. Nantel.

We'll now go to Mr. Hillyer for five minutes, and this will be our last questioner.