Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 30th, 2018

[Glenn Rollans]

Thanks for the question.

First of all, I think our goal is to be on the same page and to have the industry committee and this committee making the same recommendations. My remarks were somewhat different today from those made at the industry committee, but that's because of this committee's focus on compensation in particular.

I'm not as certain that there was a jurisdictional intention, or a cross-jurisdictional intention, in the changes that were made in the Copyright Act, as that it was a misstep. I think there were unintended consequences to the inclusion of education as a purpose for fair dealing. I know that we have a job to do in representing that position to the provinces, and our members are active across the country, including Nunavut, in making that representation.

I think the Government of Canada has important tools that it can use in its good offices, in its funding to post-secondary education and in its signals to the education sector about where it will go with this.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

This is where I need to step in, because there are about 30 seconds left.

[Glenn Rollans]

I'm sorry.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

No, no. It's okay. I thank you. It's all super-important.

In terms of the reality, the biggest lobby we hear from, on this education exception, is the universities. Could we make a deal and make it almost solely Canadian authors for K-12 and open up the valves for universities?

[Glenn Rollans]

I think the universities find value in the work we do that's uniquely Canadian. Any support that's available in good offices would go to the benefit of our members of the Canadian-owned sector. The contributions we make are unique. They're not being made by the international sector.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

What about K-12?

[Glenn Rollans]

Yes, it's for K-12 as well. Again, any signal from the government that it understands our problem—that we're bleeding in real time and that we need some redress on this—would be welcome. So far, from preconsultations until now, we have not had that signal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Long, please.

[Wayne Long, Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses this morning.

Allow me to digress briefly to another industry, or a sport, I guess.

I have a son who was a motocrosser, and he travelled the country. Motocrossers provided entertainment. They inspired youth. They attracted thousands and thousands of people to these events. They were all starving. They slept on couches. They were bumming meals. In fact, they actually had to pay to participate in these events. Spectators would go to the events and pay to watch them. It was absolutely bizarre. That changed in motocross when corporations across Canada got more involved. Corporations saw the value of getting more involved.

With respect to you, Ms. Jackson, number one, I commend RBC for what you do across the country. Certainly the emerging artists program is wonderful. RBC is clearly a leader.

Can you touch on how important it is for large corporations across Canada to be involved, to help? The words “starving artist” take a whole new meaning the more I learn on this committee. What further role, and what bigger role, if you will, can corporations play? When did RBC actually recognize that?

[Corrie Jackson]

In terms of the emerging artists program, that need to support young artists was established in 1999, due to quite a bit of research in the field.

Given your story, though, I think there are a lot of similarities to what an emerging artist's experience is today. I have counterparts at many of the other financial institutions, as well, who are actively collecting. More and more, I'm seeing other corporate sponsors understanding, from a collection perspective, what it means to collect work to make sure that artists are paid, to support them directly.

[Wayne Long]

I'll just jump in, if you don't mind.

Is it a cultural thing? Whether it's for creators of any form of art.... Why don't bigger corporations across the country recognize the importance of a strong arts and culture sector?

[Corrie Jackson]

I do feel that there is an increasing amount of support, especially around prizing. They understand that there is an audience that is going to go to events and is going to want to see the work that young artists are doing, and there is engagement.

I do think, from what you're asking, that it has been limited, and there's definitely space for more—

[Wayne Long]

What can we do, as a federal government, to help bring that along?

[Corrie Jackson]

From my perspective, it's more the understanding of what the actual impact is of the work that corporations do on what the primary market economy looks like. We acquire work, and we support artists that way, but there isn't really a broad understanding—at least in any research I've found—that can give a corporation a sense of what that impact looks like.

I would definitely make the recommendation that there be time and effort spent in understanding what that Canadian market looks like broadly, so that we can track and understand impact.

[Wayne Long]

Do you have any input as to how the Copyright Act can be improved to help emerging artists? Do you have any recommendations on that?

[Corrie Jackson]

In terms of emerging artists, I think it's about making sure that they have the resources to understand that the Copyright Act affects them.

A lot of young artists I speak to don't even know about CARFAC, which is an organization that is there to support them. A lot of artists coming out of school haven't heard of it.

I think it's about putting resources toward making sure that young artists understand what is already in place, so that you can get the feedback to grow that support.

[Wayne Long]

Okay.

Did my colleague Mr. Boissonnault want to jump in?

[Randy Boissonnault, Edmonton Centre, Lib.]

I'll ask questions. I have lots.

[Wayne Long]

Yes, go ahead.

[Randy Boissonnault]

Thanks.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

For full transparency, Glenn is a constituent. I've heard this before, in triplicate, and I love it.

We're in the digital age, and I'm going to ask a provocative question, Glenn and Kate.

Are books obsolete, and why do we even need to worry about compensating authors at all?

[Kate Edwards, Executive Director, Association of Canadian Publishers]

The answer to the first part of your question is no. Books play a central role in our culture, in global culture. Readership studies show that Canadians are reading at rates comparable to more than 20 years ago, which is good news from our perspective, given the number of media that are competing for people's time, and that is even more true of younger Canadians.

There's interesting research from BookNet Canada, which we're happy to provide to the committee, on those statistics around Canadians age 18 to 34 and their engagement with books and why they're important. The work that our members do, as independent Canadian publishers.... They are often publishing first-time writers, books that are specific to a region or a specific piece of Canadian society or history. Those are not books that are going to be published by other publishers, internationally, as Glenn said earlier.

Those are the touch points in our national debate. They are central to democracy. They are central to our Canadian identity. I could go on and on, but I'll stop there.

[Randy Boissonnault]

I'm going to pause you there because I have only a minute left.

I'll start with Glenn and hopefully you'll have more to say in the next round.

With 80% less revenue, how do publishers survive, or do they just go out of business?

[Glenn Rollans]

The numbers from my company were down in licensing revenue, about 86% of where we were in 2012. You survive by finding ways to do more with less, but there are sacrifices. We have less production that we can do in Canada, for example. We need to use services that are based outside Canada to keep our costs under control.

We do fewer titles; we take fewer risks on important titles. Our company did a book this past year with Greg Younging, an important indigenous author, called Elements of Indigenous Style. That book was possible for us this year. It might not be possible for us in the future to do a similar book.

[Randy Boissonnault]

I hope to come back—

Is that it? Aren't there 10 more seconds on my clock?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

No, you're over time.