Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[William Harnum]

I think our recommendations and the way that Access Copyright and other collectives operate is really content-agnostic. Whether the content is electronic, delivered in print or delivered in another method that we haven't even begun to imagine, it still has to be created and it still has to be transmitted. The creators should be compensated and the users should pay.

I think that's what something like Access Copyright has been able to do for decades and should continue to do. Much of Access Copyright's work now is in obtaining compensation for digital use. Everything can be done, but there's no question that it is a challenge. As you note, there is so much free content available. It's always going to be a challenge, but it's always been a challenge. I've been in this business for 45 years, and we've never really had a good year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

On that really hopeful note,

we now move on to Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It certainly isn't easy being in the business of creation, is it?

I experienced the downward spiral of the music industry after 22 or 23 years in the business. True, things have never been as tough as they are now. As you said, however, the situation wasn't exactly optimal to begin with, so it's not that bad.

I think everyone was surprised to learn that authors make just 10% on book sales. I'm not saying that to single out the publishers, but simply to state the reality of the situation. It's standard practice around the world, and Quebec followed suit. The same is true on the music publishing side, where 50% goes to the writer and 50% to the publisher. That is standard practice.

It's inevitable given that we are conducting a study that is constantly bringing new issues to our attention. Mr. Blaney talked about this earlier, and it is now crystal clear to us that you, too, fall under the column of those who believe fair dealing has gone too far. There is no denying that it has done damage.

I think this morning is the first time we've heard someone put a figure on the losses caused by piracy. Kim Thúy lives across the street from me, and I had no idea just how much was being stolen from her on the Internet.

It's been going on for ages in the music world, with the introduction of peer-to-peer file sharing. Legal distribution platforms have come along since, iTunes and others, and so people turn to peer-to-peer file sharing less. However, we have been told that, nowadays, people are able to copy streamed content onto their computers. People steal content from digital streaming services.

In terms of written works, though, how does piracy work? How, for instance, does one of Ms. Thúy's books end up on an illegal platform? Does it work like Napster, through peer-to-peer file sharing?

[Johanne Guay]

It can be done in a number of ways.

Sometimes it's shocking. Some of our authors are lawyers, or former lawyers, so they are interested in this kind of thing and we get a lot of information from them.

In some cases, when we publish a book, we wonder whether it hasn't been digitized simultaneously, since both versions come out at the same time. It's crazy.

A young girl who was cleaning my car one day told me that she was a voracious reader, admitting that what she read was pirated.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's unbelievable.

[Johanne Guay]

In situations like that, you wonder what you should do.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

You should tell her that you're a book publisher.

[Johanne Guay]

I think she knew.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's unbelievable.

[Johanne Guay]

It doesn't seem to be all that difficult.

When you do a Google search, all kinds of things that shouldn't be there show up and you can download them. Sometimes it's slow and, other times, it freezes your computer, but you can find a lot.

I brought up Kim Thúy because she is known in both English-speaking and French-speaking Canada. Novelists are usually the ones whose works are pirated.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That brings me to—

[Johanne Guay]

Might I finish my answer, if it's all right?

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, of course. Go ahead.

We are gathered to hear what you have to say, not I.

[Johanne Guay]

It's important to understand the difference in the percentages. Above 10,000 copies, authors receive more, but bookstores and distributors take a large cut.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Indeed.

[Johanne Guay]

It's important, then, to know the difference in the rates.

I understand what Ms. Pendgracs was saying about publishers. She has to do her own marketing.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's what you do.

[Johanne Guay]

We have a marketing team, but I understand what she's saying because it does happen as well.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Certainly.

[Johanne Guay]

A publishing company should have a communications team.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Naturally. It's only proper.

[Johanne Guay]

We are obligated by contract to do it.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That's right.

Like those who manage artists, you manage books.

[Johanne Guay]

Yes, we do a bit of everything.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Indeed.

Those in the music industry have obviously brought up the notice and notice regime involving Internet service providers, as well as the private copying compensation system.

First, I'd like to know whether you've made any such requests in that context. Second, have you received much support from the large and generous corporate citizens that are our Internet service providers?