Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I have seen some documentation talking about the Métis population. Anyone east of Ontario having the identity of Métis is still an issue, or not identified within the Métis National Council or nationally. How do we solve that issue, especially if they identify themselves as Métis and want to apply to teach a language?

[Clément Chartier]

All we can say is who we are. The historic Métis nation, of which you are a descendent, is based in western Canada. We extend into northwestern Ontario, northeast B.C., the Northwest Territories and the northern United States. That's our geographical homeland. We are a distinct people, not anything else. There are people in other parts of Canada who are saying they're Métis and using the dictionary definition of mixed ancestry. Now, what they would apply for, I don't know. Perhaps they want to learn Haudenosaunee or Mi'kmaq. I don't know what they'd want to learn, but they certainly would be applying there. They wouldn't be applying to a Michif fund, because Michif is the language of the historic Métis nation.

[Georgina Jolibois, NDP, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'm looking for clarification on that, as my colleagues here would also require clarification on it, I would think, especially when we're talking to some of our colleagues, our MP friends from out east. They would require clarification. We would look to you to provide that for us and with us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

That is the end of your time.

We'll now go to Mr. Hogg for seven minutes.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chartier. You've been a little more articulate and you've filled out a little more on the issue of the impact language will have on the overall community well-being than a number of the other witnesses who we've heard.

Could you articulate that a little more broadly? The legislation talks mostly about language, language being the foundation, but as you've described it, I think you're referring to the whole well-being of a community, and you've talked about dance and song, youth and children, future, symbols and all of those things. Can you kind of wrap that up in terms of how you would see the language impacting or providing a foundation for a number of other senses of well-being within the Métis nation?

[Clément Chartier]

Basically, it's a holistic approach that's needed. This is just one of the pieces.

With this current government we've been engaged in the permanent bilateral mechanism which deals primarily with programs and services. In last year's budget we had somewhere around $1.5 billion in terms of early learning, child care and housing. In this upcoming budget we're looking at allocations for health and education.

That's one piece of it. We also have section 35 rights and reconciliation tables that Minister Bennett is engaged in with our five governing members. We're hoping that leads to dealing with section 35 rights.

We also have, of course, the co-development of legislation, this one being one of them. We also have the child and family services potential legislation in the works. That was co-developed as well. Unfortunately, it's very sad that the framework legislation on the recognition and implementation of rights framework is not proceeding. I'm not sure; perhaps it is, but I haven't heard much about it.

For the Métis nation we require something like that because we've been excluded from the comprehensive claims process. We've been excluded from all these processes. We need to have a process that engages the Métis nation. We would have hoped that would be in place.

Now, in terms of this particular bill, the “whereas” clauses are quite favourable to the Métis nation. It recognizes that languages are one of the rights that are protected by section 35 of the Constitution. It makes it clear that the indigenous peoples who have these rights are those who are contained or mentioned in subsection 35(2), which of course includes the Métis nation. So, it's incremental.

It also recognizes that it's based on the principles contained in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and in the 10 principles that the federal government brought out last year.

We're moving forward, in a way, on a holistic basis. Again, this is only one piece but it's such a critical piece. Language is so important. You've heard that over and over again from everyone who comes forward. If we could get this building block accomplished at this time, and if we can get other building blocks brought forward as well, eventually we will get to a place where we can truly say within Canada that we have a country where everyone is accommodated; everyone is helping to build this nation, or these peoples, and we're moving forward.

I've been engaged in international—

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Can I interrupt you there?

[Clément Chartier]

—indigenous politics for many years, since the 1970s. I've seen the conditions in other countries, particularly South America and Central America, and other parts of the world. When I travel, I'm proud of Canada. There are a lot of things I don't like about Canada. There are a lot of things that Canada has done particularly to the Métis nation, but when you look at it from the perspective of the reality of the world, Canada is a leader in the world.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

May I interrupt you?

[Clément Chartier]

But the more that Canada can do the better.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Sorry, I have two more quick questions.

One, I think I heard you say that this bill will set a foundation for going forward. You didn't want to see budgeting holding up the bill. You wanted to see some sense of urgency. You made some references to UNDRIP, which I think has done the same thing. Did I hear you correctly in terms of your sense of urgency with respect to this?

I'll ask you my second question while I'm at it. I can pick up on Madame Jolibois' comments.

I see that some of the participants in the consultations indicated a need for each distinct language group to be represented: one commissioner for first nations languages, one for Inuit and one for Métis languages. Others stated that this was not adequate and preferred a model that had regional indigenous language commissioners, which I think you started to articulate a little bit.

Do you have a preference between those two?

There's also the issue of a sense of urgency on the foundation going forward.

[Clément Chartier]

Well, the sense of urgency is from the perspective that here's a piece of legislation that's positive. It's urgent only in the sense that it's needed to protect our existence as distinct peoples. That's the only urgency I see.

In terms of the mechanics of it, well, that's something that can be worked out into the future. We have these long debates. At this particular time I wouldn't want to see the bill held up because of how the commission should be made up or who should be on it.

As far as we're concerned, one commissioner is fine, with three members. Now, how those three members are picked, who they are going to be, I don't know. I would hope that it is reflective of subsection 35(2) and reflects first nations, Inuit and the Métis nation. That's something we'll deal with when we get to it.

Again, I wouldn't want to see this held up because of the mechanics of that, because that can always be changed.

[Gordie Hogg, Liberal, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Yurdiga for seven—no, for five minutes.

[David Yurdiga]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I was hoping for seven minutes, but I'll take five.

I'd like to welcome our guests.

It's a very interesting conversation we're having. I thought I had a good grasp on who is Inuit, first nation or Métis, but I'm more confused now about the Métis, because during the conversations, not all Métis are Métis unless they're registered through some registry. Can you clarify that?

For example, I know a brother and a sister and one has membership in the Métis organization and the other does not. Does that make one Métis and the other not? We need to clarify that, because it's a real struggle for most people. People who identify as Métis may not be classified as Métis in your eyes.

[Clément Chartier]

Let me put it this way. The government of the Métis nation has adopted criteria as to who is eligible to be registered as a citizen of the Métis nation, not who is of mixed ancestry—we have no control over that. Pretty well all indigenous peoples in this country are of mixed ancestry, but they're not Métis.

In terms of us, we do have registries, yes. The Métis Nation of Alberta has a registry, and of course you're from that province. Those who meet the criteria are registered as citizens; they have that right. If they don't meet those criteria, then they're not registered, because they're not part of, or citizens of, the historic Métis nation. They may be people who have moved—in the case of Fort McMurray—from Newfoundland, for example, or somewhere else in the east. They would not qualify.

When you say a brother and sister, I don't know the exact circumstances of that, but it seems strange to me. Either the one should not have been registered or they both should have been registered.

Basically, when we talk about the Métis nation, we're talking about a distinct people based in western Canada, although some now live in other parts of Canada, and they're entitled to be registered as citizens of the Métis nation. If you're in Australia, you're entitled to be registered. It doesn't matter where you live in the world, as long as you're a descendant of the historic Métis nation, as long as you're entitled to be a citizen. We're going on the basis of nationhood as a sociopolitical group and as a historic people.

[David Yurdiga]

Just to clarify, I'm looking at this and wondering is it more registry over genealogy, or genealogy has nothing to do with it, and it's all registry?

[Clément Chartier]

In order to be registered as a citizen, you do have to have a genealogy that provides evidence that you're a descendant of the historic Métis people, Métis nation. You do have to have genealogical evidence, or evidence that you are a descendant of the historic Métis nation. In my case, the scrip documents are a help, because my grandparents and my mother, who was two years old in 1906, received half-breed scrip, or Métis scrip. You can use those documents to prove that these people were part of the historic Métis nation, but there are other ways and means as well, through census and so on. In the late 1800s people were registered Métis and first nations who were under the category “R”, I guess for red, so there are ways to prove it.

We demand that there be proof, though. People can't just come up and say they're Métis without having proof that they are.

[David Yurdiga]

The point I'm trying to get across is a lot of people do not choose to register. They're still Métis; their parents are Métis. If they want to register....

The way I understand it is the Métis nation is a society. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a society, and people register to the society. What do we call the people who aren't registered? Are they Métis? Are they some other identity?

I think we should put more emphasis on genealogy than registry, from my perspective anyway. If they self-identify, they have Métis lineage, mother and father are Métis and they're registered, but the children decided not to go that route.... We have to make sure we don't alienate a person who identifies as Métis and who is Métis through bloodline and now we're saying they're no longer Métis because they're not registered. We have to be careful on drawing lines in the sand and not acknowledging people who are Métis but choose not to register.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

Okay, well that brings us to the—

[Clément Chartier]

I'm not sure where you're getting that from. We've never said that. If you're Métis, you're born Métis, you're always Métis.

What we're doing is registering our people. We have registries, so if you want to register as a citizen of the Métis nation, you're free to do that. If you don't, well, you're still Métis. You still have the language, if you have it. You still have the culture. You can still participate; it's just that you're not registered as a citizen of the Métis nation, and about the only thing that won't give you is the right to vote in the elections. Other than that, you're still Métis.

I don't know where the confusion is coming from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dabrusin]

That brings us to the end of Mr. Yurdiga's five minutes.

Mr. Breton, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses today.

Your testimony is greatly appreciated. I have a few questions about the Aboriginal Languages Initiative.

I don't know if you've had an opportunity to read the entire bill. Clause 11 stipulates that federal institutions may request translation and interpretation services. Could you tell us which departments or documents should be given priority for these translation and interpretation services?

[Clément Chartier]

That particular provision is of less significance to the Métis nation, because we don't have the mass that speaks the language, and so I would see that provision being more for the Inuit, for example, who currently have translation services in many instances.

The only place where I would see need for interpretation services is in the court system, and basically provision is made for that already when some of our elders need to be witnesses in court cases.

Other than that, that really does not fully apply to the historic Métis nation.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

That's very good. I understand that this doesn't necessarily apply to you.

Under the Aboriginal Languages Initiative, the department obviously manages the program and supports projects and activities that promote these languages in the communities. Has the organization you represent already benefited from this program and, if so, can you describe its advantages or how it could be improved?