Evidence of meeting #142 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was groups.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Given that it's 3:30 p.m., we will begin this meeting.
This is the 142nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. We are doing a study of Bill C-91, An Act respecting Indigenous languages.
This afternoon, we welcome Pablo Rodriguez, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism. He is accompanied by Hélène Laurendeau, Deputy Minister. Stephen Gagnon, Director General of the Aboriginal Affairs Directorate, may be joining us later.
Mr. Minister, you can begin.
3:30 p.m.
Pablo Rodriguez Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, distinguished committee members and colleagues, thank you for inviting me to appear as part of your study of Bill C-91.
As you mentioned, I am accompanied by Hélène Laurendeau, Deputy Minister of Canadian Heritage. I thought I was also going to be accompanied by Stephen Gagnon, but he is not here. He must be going through security. He will join us shortly.
I want to start by recognizing that we are gathered on the ancestral lands of the Algonquin Anishinaabe. Two weeks ago, on the same lands, I had the privilege of introducing this historic legislation in the House of Commons. This is legislation that's long overdue. That's because, according to UNESCO, three-quarters of the 90 indigenous languages spoken in Canada are endangered, and if they die, so will a huge part of our identity.
Since work began on this bill, many indigenous groups and people have told us how critical this legislation will be for them, their children and their grandchildren.
Just the other day, we heard from Olive, an elder from the Oneida Nation of the Thames in southwestern Ontario. Olive's mother tongue was Oneida. It was the only language she spoke until the age of seven, when she started school. At school, Olive was punished for speaking her language. The shame it brought wounded her deeply. It was then that she decided she wouldn't teach her kids Oneida so she could spare them the humiliation she felt.
Today, there are only 45 fluent Oneida speakers left in Canada, and none of them are under the age of 65. The indigenous languages act is for people like Olive, whose community is losing its language at an alarming rate.
So we must therefore act with urgency to revitalize and strengthen indigenous languages. We have already waited too long.
Today, I will focus on two key matters related to the bill. First, I will speak about our dialogue and engagement efforts. Second, I will speak to the question of funding: how our government is going to support the revitalization of indigenous languages.
Madam Chair, let me start with engagement and co-development. This legislation had to be developed with respect to the rights of indigenous peoples.
From the outset, my departmental officials asked indigenous groups how they wanted to be engaged to participate. We did not impose a structure. We designed a process together. To achieve that, we worked with our partners: the Assembly of First Nations, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and the Métis National Council.
Each of the partners launched their own independent engagement with indigenous language experts, practitioners and academics across Canada. During that period, Canadian Heritage officials conducted 20 roundtables.
The feedback from all of these sessions, along with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's Calls to Action 13, 14 and 15, helped create the 12 principles used to co-develop this legislation.
The Department of Canadian Heritage then held intensive discussions with about 1,000 first nations, Inuit and Métis people. This included working respectfully with key indigenous organizations and governments, such as the Council of Yukon First Nations in Whitehorse, the Manitoba Metis Federation in Winnipeg, the Nunatsiavut government in Nain, and self-governing and modern treaty governments across the country.
Our online portal also connected over 200 questionnaires and electronic submissions.
We also provided funding to the First Nations Confederacy of Cultural Education Centres, the Native Women's Association of Canada, and the National Association of Friendship Centres to conduct their own research in engagement.
These voices—the voices of elders, knowledge keepers, indigenous women and young people—are echoed in the indigenous languages act.
Participants told us that indigenous languages should be recognized as a right; that each indigenous language, culture and history is distinct and unique;
that the needs of elders, women and children must be addressed. That a language commissioner should be created. That communities need sufficient, predictable and long-term funding. And that each of the groups and nations were at a different place in their path to the revitalization and preservation of their languages. This is exactly what the legislation contains.
For example, some communities would like to focus on training teachers. Others want to prioritize immersion programs or developing dictionaries. Indigenous peoples told us clearly that a one-size-fits-all approach will not work and that they are best placed to determine what will work, not government. We agree with them. Our legislation incorporates all of these considerations and elements, and more.
Madam Chair, I'd like to turn our discussions to funding.
For the first time in our history, there is legislation that commits to adequate, sustainable and long-term funding for indigenous languages. We're exploring funding models to decide how funds would be best used and distributed.
Again, it is indigenous peoples, not the Government of Canada, who know what is best for their communities. We know that they do not want project-based, annual funding. They want the flexibility to determine their own priorities. The latitude to define concrete approaches that will allow them to reclaim, revitalize and maintain their languages.
This bill is not about creating national bureaucracies and bigger project-based programs. Instead, it is about getting the investments to the people and organizations in a long-term and sustained manner through multi-year agreements that will ensure reports on progress. In fact, the bill states that the Minister of Canadian Heritage must consult with diverse indigenous governments and other indigenous governing bodies, to provide sustainable, adequate funding. This is important and it demonstrates our commitment to indigenous peoples, their communities and their future.
The indigenous languages act was developed in close partnership with indigenous people. It is truly their legislation. Its impact will be felt by many generations, including people in Olive's community. Despite the odds, Olive has worked hard to retain and maintain her language and she's helping her people regain a language that was taken from them.
The students have gone from speaking no Oneida to being able to carry on a six-minute conversation in their language. People in the neighbourhood are starting to speak to each other in Oneida, and that gives a strong feeling of pride that comes from knowing who they are. This is why this legislation is so important.
Five generations of harm inflicted upon indigenous peoples have brought us to where we are today. Reconciliation is a long and difficult journey and it requires a broad approach, one that includes improving access to clean water and reducing the number of indigenous children in foster care. The indigenous languages legislation is another step toward helping the next five generations and beyond.
I welcome feedback and amendments that could make this legislation even stronger. We must, however, move forward with purpose, and we look for support from all parties to pass Bill C-91 without delay.
Thank you.
I'm now ready to take your questions.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Thank you very much.
We will now start the time for questions and answers.
Mr. Breton, you have the floor for seven minutes.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Minister, thank you very much for being here with us this morning. We can feel that you are really passionate about this bill.
I am going to ask you three questions, one after another. Then you can have the time to reply. Your answers can be personal or professional.
In your view, how will this bill really change things?
How will it help us as a society to preserve, promote and revitalize indigenous languages?
As I just said, this bill seems to be really close to your heart, and rightly so. I would like your opinion on the really important matter of reconciliation with indigenous peoples.
3:40 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
Thank you very much, Mr. Breton. I think I have your three questions straight in my mind.
You are right that this bill is close to my heart. Here is why. Today, I am speaking French and English, but neither of them is my mother tongue. My first language is Spanish. I learned French and English at the age of eight. I can only imagine the pain, the grief, I would have felt if I had been told that I could not keep my mother tongue and I had to choose another one. That would have been horrible. But that was the experience of so many children in indigenous communities all over Canada. So many children were snatched from their homes and told that they no longer had the right to speak their own language. The intent was to snatch from them their language, their culture and their identity.
I always say that our language is our identity. It is our past, our present and our future. We want to tell our stories to our children in our own language. That is what makes it essential and why we have to act now. We should have acted long ago, but we are acting now by introducing this bill.
The bill moves us forward in terms of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
The bill responds to Calls to Action 13, 14 and 15, that deal with the country's legislation and obligations in respect of indigenous languages.
The bill requires the government to provide stable, sustainable and adequate funding in order to preserve, maintain and revitalize indigenous languages everywhere in the country. We have put that in writing.
The bill is unique in that it is extremely flexible. It will allow indigenous peoples, different nations and groups in all regions and all provinces to determine what is essential for themselves. No two indigenous languages are in exactly the same situation. As I mentioned earlier, in certain places, only a handful of people who speak a language are left. In others, the languages are more vibrant, although the people who speak them may have many challenges to meet.
Who are we in the government to tell indigenous peoples what is good for them and what they must do to revitalize or protect their languages? It is not for me or for the government to tell them; it is up to the indigenous peoples.
The bill provides enough flexibility for the different indigenous groups, wherever they are and whichever language they speak, to meet their own needs in their own way.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Okay.
Mr. Minister, we are well aware that the Department of Canadian Heritage, the Assembly of First Nations, the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, and the Métis National Council have worked together to develop this bill. I would like to know how the government went about the co-development project. You can go into detail: tell me how many meetings there were and in what spirit they were conducted.
3:40 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
Thank you, Mr. Breton.
Before we even began to develop the bill, we met to define the process. That was a key factor. The co-development process was not determined by the government alone, it was determined as we worked in partnership with the Métis, the Inuit and the First Nations.
Not only did we agree on the content of the bill, we also agreed on consultation methods in advance. We held meetings all over the country. Stephen Gagnon steered the process and he knows much more about the details than I do. He can talk about it later. We had roundtables, individual meetings and meetings with First Nations. Métis and Inuit leaders, and with women's associations. We also received more than 200 comments and suggestions online. The consultation process was very broad and extended over about two years, so that we could be sure of moving in the right direction together.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Thank you for your reply.
Welcome to Ms. Laurendeau, who is here with us, and to Mr. Gagnon, who has finally made it through security.
That is all from me for the moment.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Okay.
Before I give the floor to Mr. Blaney, I would like to welcome you, Mr. Gagnon. I am happy you could join us.
Mr. Blaney, the floor is yours for seven minutes.
February 19th, 2019 / 3:45 p.m.
Steven Blaney Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome, Mr. Minister.
I am going to delve back into my memory a little. In 2008, you and I were in the House of Commons when Prime Minister Harper apologized to indigenous peoples for the residential schools. It was he who began the process that led to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. The commission's final report, tabled in 2015, contained the three recommendations you mentioned dealing with the importance of preserving indigenous languages.
As you know, we gave the bill a warm welcome in our new House of Commons. We look forward to studying it in committee. I am told that it will be voted on in the House this week, I believe. Of course, it is our intention to support the bill so that it can be studied here at our committee.
We are now in 2019, at the end of an election cycle, just a few months from a federal election. We can see time slipping through our fingers. That being the case, a question jumps into my mind: why has it taken so long to introduce this bill?
3:45 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
Thank you for that important question, Mr. Blaney.
The process took a little longer because we wanted to do it in co-development. Ms. Joly, my predecessor, or I could have sat down at the end of a table in the wonderful office of the Minister of Canadian Heritage and drafted a bill. But we decided to do quite the opposite, to consult, from region to region, with Inuit, Métis, First Nations, women's groups, and elders. Why? Because this bill is not for us. It is for the indigenous peoples, their children and the generations to follow.
For this bill to make sense and to achieve its objectives, it had, in our opinion, to be developed in partnership with the groups affected. That is why the process took a little longer, Mr. Blaney. But it was the right thing to do. We have consensus on a lot of issues.
3:45 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
You mentioned consultations. We are going to be hearing from representatives from the Assembly of First Nations and from the Métis. However, one group, the Inuit, will probably not be part of the consensus on the bill. Could you tell me why?
3:45 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
There is a consensus around the bill. The Inuit would like other elements added to the bill. That’s where there is not a consensus. However, they were included in the discussions from the outset. The entire co-development process includes the Inuit 100%. They would like the bill to go a little further. We are ready to continue the discussions. My door is always open and we have consultation mechanisms. On the other hand, we have to start somewhere.
Mr. Blaney, you yourself mentioned the importance of the time factor. We do not have a lot of time left, actually. We needed to introduce a bill. This one is already built on something extremely solid: after two years of consultations, we have agreed on 12 basic principles, for which we have obtained approval from various groups. In parallel, we can continue to negotiate specific points. In due course, if we agree on particular points, they can be included, either in the bill or in other agreements.
3:45 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
In their statement, they said the process went on behind closed doors. We almost sensed an allusion to colonialism in their criticism.
We are certainly going to invite them to appear before us, Mr. Minister.
3:50 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
That said, how can we ensure that we are inclusive? Given the witnesses that we will be hearing from, will you be open to amendments to the bill?
3:50 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
Yes. As I have said from the outside, this is a baseline, but it is a very solid baseline that can be amended as the committee deems fit. However, the baseline is taking us somewhere. It responds to the Commission’s Calls to Action numbers 13, 14 and 15. It moves forward on the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. It provides stable funding. In the short term, it will allow our communities to immediately begin work on revitalizing languages.
3:50 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Okay, you are talking about funding, Mr. Minister, and you talked about it in your speech. Let me ask you the million-dollar question, Mr. Minister: how much?
3:50 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
We will see about that as the discussions continue. Clearly, the quicker the bill is passed, the quicker you will have a specific answer to your question. As you know, specific amounts of money are not mentioned in bills.
3:50 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
We have been told that $30 million have been allocated in the current budget and that this amount will continue for the next two years. Are you able to tell us anything more about that?
3:50 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
That is another program. You are right in saying that a program is underway. It involves $90 million over three years to revitalize indigenous languages. That is while we are waiting. The legislative measures we are talking about here, however, go much further and will have transformational results in the long term.
You are correct in saying that a three-year, $90-million program is underway. That’s $30 million per year. This bill, however, looks to the future and, among other things, will establish things like predictable, long-term funding mechanisms.
3:50 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Are you telling us that, for this year and the next two years, the envelope will fit with the parameters of your bill and that you are going to continue it into the future? Could other amounts be added subsequently?
3:50 p.m.
Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism
There will be additional amounts, but the bill first has to be passed and discussions have to continue.
The bill actually gives us no choice. It tells us in writing that we have to provide stable, adequate, sustainable and long-term funding. Clearly, there will be additional funding that I am not in a position to announce today, but that will be discussed with the indigenous peoples.