Evidence of meeting #142 for Canadian Heritage in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was groups.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
That brings you to the end of your five minutes.
We get to go back to Mr. Hogg, who had two quick questions.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Mr. Yurdiga, I think your comments are very salient, but I also think that the office of the commissioner, as you've described it, is probably the place where that sensitivity will be found. They're the ones who can operationalize it, much more so than as part of the legislation. I think that's what their task is. That's what their job is, as I read the clauses. Am I correct on that?
5:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
You're totally correct on that.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
The second thing I was concerned about was what it says in part of the preamble:
Whereas 2019 has been proclaimed by the General Assembly of the United Nations as the International Year of Indigenous languages to, among other things, draw attention to the critical loss of Indigenous languages and the urgent need to maintain, revitalize and promote Indigenous languages;
I've been hearing there's a fair amount of consensus in terms of the urgency of this. Given what you've heard, is it your sense that this is something we could actually get through the House and get done in the next...? I don't think you're prescient enough to be able to say that, but based on what you're hearing from the committee, are you feeling you're pretty close to what is being asked for?
5:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
It's not an easy question for me as an official to answer. It really depends—
5:25 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
To be clear, I think it's very doable. There's a high level of consensus in many places. Of course, I cannot presume to know the level of consensus among parliamentarians. That's why there are those discussions, but it's fair to say there's a high level of consensus about the urgency and the need to act.
We can always improve, through the five-year review, and look at how we could do better. The missed opportunity would be to wait even longer.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
The United Nations is saying how urgent this is and we're hearing it from the communities as well. There will be a review that happens every five years. That is contained within the legislation.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Gordie Hogg Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
I'm feeling some solace and hope that we can actually get this through, so that the aboriginal communities can actively make decisions for themselves through the commissioner, rather than having us sit here and do that.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
That brings us to 5:30 p.m.
Thank you very much to all of you for coming to help us with this legislation. It was really helpful to have your background on it.
We are going to suspend for half an hour, but I'll ask everyone to be back at the table at six o'clock, when we will continue with Clément Chartier, President of the Métis National Council.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
We're going to get started again.
With us now, by video conference, we have Clément Chartier, President of the Métis National Council.
Thank you for being with us. I know we had a little time change with you, but it's really helpful to have you here.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
President, Métis National Council
Yes, thank you.
As you know, I've appeared before your committee in the past and I've given an explanation of the Métis nation and the people, our geographic territory and so on. I won't get into too much of that, other than, again, to reaffirm the Métis nation is a distinct people. We have a distinct language known as Michif, although many of our people still speak other indigenous languages. For example, in the Métis village of La Loche, the Métis there speak Dene. In the Métis village of Île-à-la-Crosse, many speak Cree. In other provinces, particularly Manitoba, many of our people speak Saulteaux. So it's not only that the Michif language is important to us, but Michif is the official language of the Métis nation. Our nation is located in western Canada.
I know the legislation also addresses the need to redress grievances or historic wrongs, and the Métis nation is no different. We remain to see reparations from Canada, particularly with respect to the relocation of our peoples within our homeland. We became internal refugees within our own homeland, dispossessed of our lands and resources. We're the subject of a unilaterally imposed system, which we dispute, which so-called extinguished our title and rights to our lands and resources and to our harvesting rights. So I guess we have reasons to celebrate this bill going forward.
In particular, we also suffer the consequences of residential schools. As I've mentioned in the past, I was a former student of the Île-à-la-Crosse boarding school. I was there for 10 years. We still have to be dealt with by Canada. Of course, many of us were severely affected by that experience. We were also victims of the sixties scoop and the exclusion of many federal programs and services provided to other indigenous peoples over the years. Finally, with the Daniels decision in 2016, and the federal government clearly being viewed as having a responsibility, or at least the jurisdiction, to deal with the Métis on a nation-to-nation, government-to-government basis, I think we're currently on a level playing field, and that's a good thing.
Over the past three years we've seen unprecedented growth in the relationship with the Government of Canada. Through the current Prime Minister, we have the permanent bilateral mechanisms, which for the first time in the history of the Métis nation led us to budget 2018, where we are now in a substantial way on a distinctions-based approach, provided programs and services to citizens of the Métis nation, services we did not have in the past. Of course, we're looking forward to budget 2019, where we are hoping we will have further allocations to the Métis nation.
We've waited a long time for this to happen, and it's finally happening. We're particularly pleased that this government has engaged us on a nation-to-nation, government-to-government basis through a partnership between us in areas such as co-development of legislation. This particular piece, the indigenous languages bill, which hopefully will end up being an indigenous languages act, was co-developed, as I say, with the national representatives of indigenous peoples and nations, the Assembly of First Nations, the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and the Métis National Council, the national government of the Métis nation. I think this is unprecedented.
We have been engaged in a meaningful way, not just with consultations but actual co-development, at both the political level and at the officials level. I sincerely thank Minister Joly and Minister Rodriguez for the work they've done, and the Prime Minister for his accepting at the outset that he must deal with us in a distinctions-based approach, first nations, Inuit and the Métis nation, and also recognizing section 35 as a full box of rights and that the inherent right contained therein includes the right to our languages.
Over the last 25 years or so, the Métis National Council and its governing members, particularly Métis Nation-Saskatchewan through the Gabriel Dumont Institute, and the Metis Manitoba Federation through the Louis Riel Institute, have been working quite diligently on looking to recapture, revitalize and promote our languages to be spoken once again. Unfortunately, I would say we have less than 1,000 fluent Michif speakers in our homeland. The majority of them are over the age of 65. The Gabriel Dumont Institute has been doing a good job, as has the Louis Riel Institute, on capturing the language on video and through audio. They produce videos and printed materials to help promote the language.
I notice that member of Parliament Georgina Jolibois, from the riding where I live in northwest Saskatchewan, is present. She'll know that the Métis village of Île-â-la-Crosse has been very active in ensuring that the language is kept alive. This year they're celebrating their 20th anniversary of language in the school. It's a big year for them.
I believe this piece of legislation—this act—is something that will be of significant benefit to indigenous peoples and nations, particularly to the Métis nation. We know that it will enable us to be further engaged with promoting and preserving our language and having a space in the larger picture within Canada. The language and our cultures are so important.
This is where I come back to what I've said before. The Métis nation is not a people of mixed ancestry. Perhaps it was initially, but we evolved as a distinct people and nation with our culture, language and our political consciousness. We are a polity. We are a cultural group. We're not simply people of mixed ancestry, which is a notion we totally reject. Of course, we know there are others in this country now stepping forward claiming the label of Métis. We just want to ensure that this doesn't confound matters as we move forward.
In closing, I want to remind the committee that the Métis nation will be celebrating. I use the term “celebrating”, because over the past three years, we've had such tremendous progress with this current government that we can celebrate—not just mark—the 150th anniversary of the Métis nation joining Canada through the Manitoba Act as the fifth province of Canada. We can actually celebrate, because we have cause to celebrate. We look forward to celebrating the 150th anniversary of the Canada-Métis nation relationship next year.
With that, I'm prepared to respond to any questions that you may have.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dabrusin
Thank you. It's good to have you with us again.
We will go to Mr. Long for seven minutes, please.
6:10 p.m.
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good evening to my colleagues. I can't believe I'm saying good evening, but it is good evening.
Thank you for your presentation.
I'm fascinated by this. I still feel somewhat of a rookie on heritage, but the study of indigenous languages absolutely captivates me. I tried to do some background reading. I learned that there are more than 90 indigenous languages, apparently, across this country.
I saw a quote from Armand McArthur from Pheasant Rump First Nation. He speaks Nakoda. He talked about his pride and passion and how he feels it has been his responsibility to teach others, to preserve his language.
I am thrilled that Bill C-91 recognizes the constitutional rights of indigenous people, including indigenous languages.
Can you touch on how important Bill C-91 is to you? What will it do to strengthen the culture, passion and history of indigenous groups and their languages right across the country? Perhaps you could start with that for me.
6:10 p.m.
President, Métis National Council
Yes. Thank you.
It is very important. Language is such a critical part of who you are as a people, and in this case, again, the Métis nation. The language, Michif, is such an important language to us, as are other indigenous languages, as I mentioned earlier, that some of our people speak.
Ours is a rich culture; however, like other indigenous peoples, we have suffered many years of oppression, of repression of our rights and, in the case of the Métis nation, of exclusion, including exclusion from the comprehensive claims processes; exclusion from the specific claims processes; exclusion from, for example, the first nations and Inuit health branch—there's no Métis there; and, exclusion from a lot of general programs and services that were provided to other indigenous peoples.
We were excluded from, first of all, the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement and from the Prime Minister's apology. We were excluded from the mandate of the TRC and, as I say, because of that, we were excluded from the recommendations, although we do benefit from the recommendations, this being one example of that.
After all of these years of exclusion, marginalization and repression, still today we're persecuted or prosecuted for exercising our harvesting rights, our hunting and fishing rights.
When you have a government or a Parliament that is prepared to recognize at least part of who you are—and in this case, an important part, a language, that's so very important to us.... If we can't enjoy our own languages and our own cultures, in the end, while rights are important, they become meaningless if you cease to be who you are as a people. This is going to very much fortify the respective cultures and languages of indigenous peoples and nations.
6:10 p.m.
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Thank you very much.
I also want to get your opinion on the funding. We did have Minister Rodriguez in here earlier. I asked him about the government's commitment to long-term funding over years to preserve indigenous languages. Can you give me your thoughts and insight as to how you would like to see that funding spent? How would you like to see it allocated? Potentially, it could be province to province or indigenous group to indigenous group. Can you give me any insight? Have you given any thought to that?
My background is business. I still like to call myself a bit of a fiscal conservative. There's always going to be that adage, can we afford to do this? I say that we can't afford not to do it, so I want to get your insight as to how you would like to see the funding roll out.
6:10 p.m.
President, Métis National Council
It's a question that I've been pondering for a while. The easy answer is to just put in several billions of dollars and we'll work it out, but I know that's not going to happen.
I know there are many languages. Some are endangered. Some are extinct. People are trying to revitalize some. It's going to take a lot of work. There's no easy answer to that.
Our past experience has been with the previous fund, which wasn't adequate. For various reasons, the Métis nation had a difficult time accessing it. We've been marginalized for so long in the federal system that when it comes to the Métis or the Métis nation we have a much more difficult time doing that.
About two years ago, I did write a letter to the then minister of heritage without really putting a lot of dollars and cents to what I was doing. I was basically suggesting that a Louis Riel institute or Michif institute be established with an endowment fund of perhaps $80 million, and we would work from that in terms of doing the things that needed to be done. I don't know if that's enough money, but we need to start somewhere.
I believe this bill is going to set the foundation for us moving forward. The amount of monies that we'll eventually be able to get is something that still needs to be discussed, but it has to be substantial. How much, I don't know, but we all feel that our languages are important, and they are important to us, but how do you weigh that? What's the balance? We just need to work it out.
I think what we have right now with this co-development, this partnership, if I can use that term, will enable us to move forward on the issues of financing. I wouldn't want to see the issue of financing hold up the bill, because we do need a foundation. We do need the recognition that this bill gives us, but of course we need to find ways to move forward in the long run.
6:15 p.m.
Saint John—Rothesay, Lib.
Thank you for that. We can't afford not to do this, and I'm very supportive. I thank you for your time tonight.
6:15 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Good evening, Mr. Chartier, and thanks for being with us via video conference.
I was outside as you made your opening remarks. Can you tell me a little bit more about the Métis language. I believe you call it Michif. Can you tell me a little bit more about its origin? Is it still spoken and if so, by how many? Where can we learn it?
I saw on the Heritage Canada website some basic words. Could you tell us a little bit just to get me started with Michif, if I can put it that way?
6:15 p.m.
President, Métis National Council
Initially, the genesis of the Métis nation was through the fur trade and basically the voyageurs from primarily the Montreal and Quebec area. Historically, the mixed ancestry people evolved as the Acadians further evolved inland as the Québécois, and it's only in the far reaches of western Canada where the Métis evolved as a distinct indigenous people.
Through time, we developed the language known as Michif, basically for simplicity. The nouns are French and the rest of it is primarily Cree. It's a new language developed within the Métis nation, the Métis people. The Gabriel Dumont Institute and the Louis Riel Institute have been doing a lot of videotaping and putting out materials to capture that.
Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation in North Dakota was actually the first one to put out the Michif dictionary back in the late 1970s, I believe. A lot of the people on that Indian reservation still speak Michif, still play the music and still dance, but they are not recognized as Métis in the United States. You're either an Indian or you're not, but our nation still extends there.
There are somewhere in the neighbourhood of about 1,000 speakers left, but they are all getting older, like 65 and older. There are initiatives like the one at the high school in Île-à-la-Crosse. For the last 20 years, it has been teaching it in the schools.
It's starting to come back, but we certainly need assistance to enable us to go forward. We need to find ways and means to do that.
6:20 p.m.
Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, CPC
Absolutely. Of course, we support the bill and the spirit of the bill. As my colleague said, we are fiscally conservative about it.
We've been speaking of the past, but going forward, how do you see the promotion, the preservation of the Michif language? How can this bill help? Today, we had some presentations from the minister and the department, but it wasn't clear on how it will unfold. They say they are talking to their partners regarding the way to make it more concrete. What is your vision on what form it can take? How much is needed for the Métis nation?