Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 1st, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Hello, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Sorry for the technical difficulties at the beginning.

Now that we have everybody, I'm going to start by saying that we are now doing our prestudy on the subject matter of Bill C-10, which is currently in the House of Commons where second reading debate has begun. We are going to consider all themes and elements from Bill C-10 throughout this study. This is our first day of the study.

Before we start, I want to say that there have been some issues with simultaneous interpretation noted in other committees last week. Should any of you encounter a problem, please flag it immediately by raising your hand or saying something to the effect that you cannot get the interpretation. Please do not yell into your microphone if you're not getting interpretation; just repeat the words “excuse me” or whatever. We need to be sensitive to our interpreters. As you can well imagine, they have large earphones and, of course, it can be very loud when you shout into your microphone.

There is only one other stipulation about interpretation. If you do not have a headset with a microphone.... Let's say that you're using the Apple headset, where there's a cord with a microphone on it. Please place the microphone close to your mouth. That way, interpretation is able to hear you. We really appreciate this.

We're a little bit behind, so let's get started.

On the subject matter of Bill C-10, we have, to start, three groups with us in the first hour.

From the Association québécoise de la production médiatique, we have Hélène Messier, president and chief executive officer. From the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française, we have Martin Théberge, president; and Marie-Christine Morin, executive director. Finally, from the Quebec English-language Production Council, we have Darius Bossé, a lawyer with Power Law; Kenneth Hirsch, co-chair; and Eva Ludvig, member of the board of directors of the Quebec Community Groups Network.

Thank you, one and all.

We're going to start with Madame Messier.

Ms. Messier, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Hélène Messier, President and Chief Executive Officer, Association québécoise de la production médiatique]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, the Association québécoise de la production médiatique, or AQPM, advises, represents and accompanies more than 160 independent film, television and web production corporations in Quebec. Thank you for inviting me here as the work on Bill C-10 begins.

In 2018-2019, Quebec's independent production companies generated a volume of $875 million in producing feature-length movies, television programs and web content, thereby creating the equivalent of more than 16,000 full-time jobs.

For more than 50 years, Quebec's independent producers have been able to provide audiences at home and abroad with original content in French and English. This is because of the determination of a few pioneers like Graham Spry and Alan Plaunt. Their work resulted in the Aird Commission, whose 1929 report led to the passage of the first version of the Broadcasting Act in 1932.

The government thereby recognized that it was essential to strengthen national identity and to affirm Canada's cultural sovereignty by providing local programming to Canadians who, at the time, were overwhelmed by radio programs produced by American stations. Those are the principles that led to the adoption of the first version of the Broadcasting Act and it seems important to me to recall them as the preliminary study of Bill C-10begins.

This bill represents the first major reform to the Broadcasting Act since the one in 1991. It seeks to integrate online transmission services, both Canadian and foreign, into the regulatory framework so that they can all play a role in funding and promoting our national content. It also seeks to give the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, the CRTC, the power it needs to ensure that the rules are followed by these new players. The AQPM is delighted with this historic step forward.

Since the first act in 1932, the landscape has changed greatly, with the arrival of our public broadcaster, with the creation of institutions such as the National Film Board, the NFB, Telefilm Canada, the Canada Media Fund and the establishment of fiscal and financial measures to support the Canadian audiovisual industry. The industry now has reached an annual production volume in excess of $9 billion. This substantial figure seems to show that the industry is doing well, but it hides a troubling reality. In fact, 52% of the audiovisual content produced in Canada is not Canadian. It is made in Canada by foreign companies.

The rest of the production volume is divided between the broadcasters' internal production, at 13%, which includes sports, news or public affairs, and independent production, which comes to 35% of the total. So, independent Canadian content, which alone ensures the diversity of television broadcasts or feature films, represents only a little more than one third of the production in Canada each year. Can there be any question about the need to better support the creation, production, distribution and promotion of Canadian content?

The AQPM sees that urgent action is needed. Traditional sources of funding are declining, as are the production budgets for original content in French. The whole ecosystem must be overhauled so that production companies can develop, our creative resources can be fully deployed, and our cultural identity can live on. In addition, mass media like cinema, television and music are essential for protecting French and the indigenous languages.

However, Bill C-10 lacks some fundamental items, particularly in terms of adequate protection for original content in French, for Canadian talent, and for the intellectual property of Canadian production companies. Canadian content means ensuring that the bill focuses squarely on Canadian creators, that the content belongs to Canadian companies and that original content in French has a major place.

Bill C-10 excludes some critical players in the new media reality, such as social media, online distribution companies and the companies that provide Internet and cell phone service.

The task of implementing Canadian broadcasting policy rests with the CRTC. It is therefore the guardian of the objectives set out in clause 3 of the bill and in translating them to the requirements to be imposed on broadcasting companies. This fundamental role must be set within a serious framework provided by the government, something that is lacking in the current bill.

The Minister of Canadian Heritage would like the bill to put an end to the lack of regulatory symmetry between traditional broadcasters and online undertakings. Bill C-10 provides for fair and equitable treatment for the broadcasting companies that provide services of a similar nature. The AQPM is afraid that traditional broadcasters may see that as an opportunity to decrease their existing obligations.

If our wish is that bringing new players into the broadcasting ecosystem will result in new sources of revenue to produce and promote more original Canadian content in English, French and indigenous languages, and in content that is better financed and more diversified in genre, the government should quickly state its intentions in that regard.

The AQPM would like to point out that it is a member of the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions. We therefore support the coalition's proposed amendments. But we will be producing our own brief, which will be sent to the members of the committee in the coming weeks.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. Messier.

We now move to the representatives of the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française.

We have Martin Théberge and Marie-Christine Morin.

Mrs. Morin, can you start?

[Marie-Christine Morin, Executive Director, Fédération culturelle canadienne-française]

Mr. Théberge will start.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you.

Mr. Théberge, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Martin Théberge, President, Fédération culturelle canadienne-française]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Martin Théberge. I am the President of the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française, the FCCF, and I am accompanied, as you have just said, by Marie-Christine Morin, our Executive Director.

This is a pivotal moment for the Canadian broadcasting system. We welcome the introduction of the bill, which, in itself, represents an essential advance in modernizing Canada's Broadcasting Act. This is crucial in maintaining our country's identity and cultural sovereignty.

Thank you for inviting us to appear before your committee today to present to you the key points of our thinking and our main requests about the bill you are studying, in terms of the issues and the particular needs of official language minority communities.

As well as being the voice of the ecosystem of French-Canadian and Acadian arts and culture, the FCCF is proud to present requests that reflect a broad consensus. Our efforts in horizontal collaboration have borne fruit. Like our members, our partners in the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the FCFA, and in the Quebec English-language Production Council, the QEPC, formally support our position. It is also important to note that the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française has also allied itself with the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions, of which we are a member. Finally, to the quality process of our internal work, the FCCF adds assistance from external legal and institutional services that support our position.

The amendments that the FCCF is requesting have four main objectives. First, Canadian broadcasting policy must take into account the particular situation of official language minority communities, or OLMCs, and the unique linguistic challenges and issues of Francophone minorities, through specific objectives specifically set out in Canada's legislative framework for broadcasting.

Second, the mission of the CRTC must be made more specific in order to include the needs of the OLMCs and their particular realities.

Third, the objectives for original content in French must be strengthened in order to take into account the unique situation of French in the country.

Fourth, the FCCF seeks to ensure that online distribution companies are established in such a way that the CRTC may issue orders to them requiring mandatory distribution and an equitable proportion of Canadian content. This must include a significant amount of original broadcasting in French, and a guarantee that it can be viewed in an optimal way.

The FCCF sees the significance of our requests to you in terms of support, in the broadest sense, for the development of our fragile artistic and cultural ecosystem. The broadcasting choices that are about to be made will be critical for our ability to see and hear ourselves, and to create and produce in French. The result will be nothing less than the protection of our country's cultural sovereignty.

The FCCF is adamant about the need for Parliament to clearly state its intentions for official language minority communities in Bill C-10. Our experience has shown that, only when OLMCs are specifically mentioned, will we be able to work towards the full and complete participation of our communities in the Canadian broadcasting system.

Before our appearance, the FCCF provided the clerk of the committee with a statement of our position. We have proposed specific wording for the amendments we are putting forward and have provided detailed explanations in support. We are convinced that including the points we are raising as amendments to the current version of Bill C-10 will allow official language minority communities to participate better in the Canadian broadcasting system and will foster their cultural development in the long term.

Thank you for your attention, we will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Mr. Théberge.

Next we have the Quebec English-language Production Council.

Madam Ludvig, you have five minutes, please.

[Eva Ludvig, Member of the Board of Directors, Quebec Community Groups Network, Quebec English-language Production Council]

Good morning, Chair Simms and members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. My name is Eva Ludvig, and I am a member of the executive committee of the Quebec Community Groups Network, QCGN. I am accompanied by Kenneth Hirsch, co-chair of the Quebec English-language Production Council, QEPC, and our counsel, Darius Bossé from Power Law. We represent Quebec’s English-speaking community, more than one million people, half of all Canadians living in French or English official-language minority communities, OLMC.

Like everyone, we need to know who we are. That means seeing ourselves when we look in our cultural mirrors, not seeing someone else. Like everyone, our language is a key part of our identity, our history, and, we hope, our future. The English-speaking minority in Quebec is a unique community, not simply an extension of the English majority in the rest of Canada. We are not Americans, anymore than the Swiss, Belgians or Québécois are French.

[Kenneth Hirsch, Co-Chair, Quebec English-language Production Council]

In Quebec, we are an increasingly vulnerable minority. There are fewer and fewer bilingual municipalities. Our school boards are under attack and our schools are closing. Our population is aging. Our jobs are leaving Quebec, and our children are following.

Over a generation, English language film and TV production in Quebec has fallen from 25% of total English language production in Canada to just 7%. On our current trajectory, we can foresee the end of OLMC production in Quebec, and the jobs that such production represents.

Worse, the loss of OLMC production in Quebec will drastically reduce our community’s ability to share our distinct and diverse stories with one another, with other Canadians and the world.

Our communications system, indeed our cultural sovereignty, has never been under greater assault from foreign streaming services than it is now. It has never been easier to be a cultural consumer, streaming more and more content, paying for more and more platforms to deliver it: someone else’s content, someone else’s platforms.

Bill C-10 legislation you are now considering is more desperately needed than anything Parliament has enacted for broadcasting since the establishment of the CBC in 1936.

Yet Canada’s official language minorities are totally absent from this draft of Bill C-10. Despite the parliamentary mandate to support the vitality of official language minorities in the Broadcasting Act and the Official Languages Act, the draft legislation before you fails to even mention us. We ask you to reconsider and to rectify this regrettable oversight. Canadian broadcasting policies must consider the needs of the official language minorities and help us secure our future.

[Eva Ludvig]

To that end, the English and French minorities agree on their approach to Bill C-10.

The Fédération culturelle canadienne-française,

as you heard, said in its letter to the minister:

In addition to those francophone alliances, we are proud to confirm the support of English-language organizations in Quebec... for the FCCF's position papers and for all the amendments we are proposing.

QEPC, ELAN—the English Language Arts Network—and QCGN said in our letter to the minister:

...we wish to stress that we support the amendments to Bill C-10 put forward by the [FCCF] on December 2.... These proposed amendments to Bill C-10 are aimed at ensuring that Canadian broadcasting policies consider the specific situation of [official language minority communities]... an objective also pursued by QEPC, QCGN, and ELAN.

When tabling Bill C-10, the minister said, “With the modernization of the legislation, Francophone, Anglophone, Indigenous, people with disabilities, racialized and LGBTQ2+ creators will have the means to tell their own stories.”

As the bill is now written, that is simply not true. Anglophone and francophone minority-language creators have been excluded.

To include us, we respectfully request, one, that the Broadcasting Act's interpretation clause be expanded to expressly include and support French and English minority-language communities; two, that the CRTC's and the CBC's obligation to ensure that positive measures are taken to enhance the vitality and support of the development of the OLMCs be expressly stated in the Broadcasting Act; and, three, that an obligation for the government to consult both official-language minority communities be included in the Broadcasting Act.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Thank you, Ms. Ludvig.

Now we go directly to questions. I remind my colleagues to please point out who your question is addressed to.

We're going to start with the Conservatives.

Mr. Rayes, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for joining us today and for giving us their time to help us determine how we can improve Bill C-10.

I have had the opportunity to meet representatives from a number of organizations across the country, some of whom are here today. They have told me about their concerns with Bill C-10.

First of all, I have to say that everyone agrees that it is time to get down to the task of modernizing the Broadcasting Act. The minister chose to divide his bill into three parts. Naturally, this does not address everything, thereby creating some dissatisfaction.

In the course of the various consultations that I have personally conducted, I have been told about concerns about the production of francophone content. People want to make sure that the bill will accommodate that in order to protect minority French-language communities all across the country, not just in Quebec.

My first question goes to the representatives of the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française and to the representative of the Association québécoise de la production médiatique.

In your opinion, what are the key points, the amendments that should be made to the bill, in order to really take French into account. Should it be with quotas or should it not? I do not want to get into a debate about quotas but I would like to know whether you have any recommendations.

The people from the FCCF can answer first, followed by the AQPM.

[Martin Théberge]

As I said in my opening remarks, we focus on four points. I won't repeat them, but I will invite my colleague Mrs. Morin to present those amendments in more detail so that everyone can fully understand them.

[Marie-Christine Morin]

The amendments that the FCCF is proposing in terms of the promotion of francophone content have two objectives. First, it is not only about encouraging the production of francophone content; it is also about obtaining guarantees with respect to the production of French-language content by French-language minority communities. This is to ensure that our ecosystem, which is particularly fragile and which needs a helping hand, can count on specific protection. Essentially, we are proposing three amendments to that end, some of which match the proposals made by the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions.

Our colleagues in Quebec and in the Canadian francophonie have worked together well for the francophonie in its broader sense. We are proposing amendments to the bill that would amend the wording of clauses 3 and 5. These provisions deal with recognizing the importance of producing and distributing original content and programming in the French language. The amendment to the wording of clause 5 deals with the creation and production of content in both official languages.

In essence, those are the amendments that we are proposing. The FCCF also proposes the addition of a specific provision to clause 9 to ensure that our ecosystem is recognized as a minority.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Messier, the same question goes to you.

[Hélène Messier]

Too often in the past, the CRTC has interpreted the recognition of linguistic duality as the provision of content in French, with no concern for whether the content consisted of programs translated from English, with subtitles or dubbing. That is why we are arguing for the creation of original content in French.

As Mrs. Morin emphasized, we want this requirement first and foremost to be established in subsection 3(1). Section 3 is the foundation of the Broadcasting Act. It contains the objectives of the act, with which the CRTC must ensure compliance. In our view, it is important that the requirement be established in that section. Of course, original content in French includes production both from Quebec and from official language minority communities.

We want it in section 5 because it is the CRTC's mission. We also want it in subsection 9(1), because it is one of the factors that the CRTC must consider when it makes orders establishing service conditions for all the industry's players, traditional and digital broadcasters alike.

We want to ensure that the CRTC remembers this and enforces it. In the past, it did not do so and we have had to appeal CRTC decisions in order to remind them of the importance of French-language content being original, not simply in French. With online service providers like Netflix providing content in 30 languages, it is an even more important reminder that French-language content be original.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

My next question is for the Quebec English-language Production Council. Madam Ludvig or Mr. Hirsch, if you had just one element to improve in Bill C-10 what would it be for you?

[Kenneth Hirsch]

I would just make the point that we're seeking to be recognized under Bill C-10 for very similar reasons in that we're a minority that is now threatened in terms of production quantity and we're looking to ensure the vitality of our production community. I'm going to defer to Maître Bossé to answer your specific question as to which one is most vital to us.

Maître Bossé.

[Darius Bossé, Lawyer, Power Law, Quebec English-language Production Council]

Thank you, Mr. Hirsch.

Thank you for the question, Mr. Rayes.

In general, the amendments to Bill C-10 that QEPC, ELAN and the Quebec Community Groups Network, the QCGN, are proposing are intended to ensure that the use of the discretionary power that the Broadcasting Act provides is well established.

Too often, we see that, although the CRTC and CBC/Radio-Canada must comply with the requirements set out in the Official Languages Act—

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Very quickly, Mr. Bossé.

[Darius Bossé]

The objective is to restate the CRTC's commitments and requirements and to strengthen them in the Broadcasting Act so that official language minority communities are taken into account.

[The Chair, Liberal, Scott Simms]

Mrs. Bessette, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses joining us today.

My first question goes to Mr. Théberge and to Mrs. Morin, from the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française.

Compared to English-language producers, the French-language cultural sector outside Quebec has to confront particular challenges, as you told us earlier.

Can you tell us about those challenges more specifically and about the measures that must be taken to promote content from official language minority communities?

[Marie-Christine Morin]

There are many challenges. In terms of production, very specific commitments have to be made in order to stimulate the production and creation of francophone content in minority situations. We have an ecosystem of artists, technical crews and producers who can certainly produce and create that content. The industry must be specifically encouraged because it is evolving in an English-speaking sea, and is in competition with markets that are also English-speaking.

The discoverability and promotion of the content are also challenges. Some amendments to this bill that we would like to see deal with stimulating the production and the promotion of those talents, especially in French. Very little original French-language content is on offer. We want to make sure that everything that is on offer can be seen.

The amendments are specifically to do with mandatory carriage. We want to ensure that the supply of that content is maintained so that francophone culture remains accessible from coast to coast.

[Lyne Bessette, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Morin.

Your organization has long been seeking better regulations for the tech giants, to make the rules of the game fairer. The new act could meet that objective.

What changes would those new regulations represent for those working in French-language culture?