Evidence of meeting #21 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was broadcasting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:10 p.m.
Catherine Edwards Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
Thanks so much for inviting us.
As you said, I am Catherine Edwards with CACTUS.
The Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations, or CACTUS, advocates for access to digital skills training and support for production and broadcast platforms so that individuals and communities can express themselves in the digital environment.
March 26th, 2021 / 2:10 p.m.
Alex Freedman Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
My name is Alex Freedman, and I am the executive director of the Community Radio Fund of Canada. We collaborate with all three community radio associations, and with us in CACTUS there are about 250 member radio and television stations. Together we're speaking with the same voice. We're looking for greater recognition and specificity regarding the role of community broadcasters and the Broadcasting Act.
It is important to recognize that more than 100 indigenous community broadcasters also make up the community aspect of the Broadcasting Act, but we acknowledge that currently most of those broadcasters are not members of our organizations.
2:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
Community-owned and -operated radio and TV stations, many of which are evolving into multimedia innovation hubs, are answerable to community-elected boards. Most have government oversight through CRTC licensing or participation in programs such as the local journalism initiative. They're led by professionals who train and coordinate community members and local organizations, producing content for a fraction of the cost of public and private broadcasters. They arise from local aspirations, passion and effort, and they're there for the long haul. They stand between the fake news of the unregulated Internet on the one hand, and public and private broadcasting on the other, serving communities with populations over 100,000. They serve rural, remote and northern communities, some with as few as 500 households, as well as minorities in urban settings.
2:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
We also employ more than 1,000 staff members across the country; we provide media training to 20,000 volunteers; we broadcast in as many as 80 different languages, including 20 different indigenous languages; and we produce more than a million hours of local, Canadian-produced content every year.
The need for a robust community broadcasting system has never been greater. Commercial broadcasters are emptying newsrooms. We've seen this with Bell and HuffPo recently, as their business models struggled to adapt to the digital competition. The result is a lack of local representation, which serves to fundamentally undermine our democracy.
Community broadcasters have an incredibly important role in ensuring diversity and access for indigenous and minority-language communities. We offer them training and infrastructure to tell their stories. In fact, we're the training ground for the large majority of Canada's future broadcasters. Community broadcasters are the creative hubs supporting the creative Canada policy framework, ensuring we can compete internationally by providing low-risk platforms where talent, tests and new ideas get their chance to evolve.
Community radio is also where most emerging Canadian artists get played first. Ms. Ien asked the CRTC an important question about how diversity will be maintained. Unfortunately, once again, we hear the response that we should leave it to them; they're going to get it done. Therein lies the problem. It's been left to the CRTC for generations, and because of a lack of definition of our role, we have been really out of many of these conversations.
Our first ask is that we fulfill our potential by accessing more recognition within the Broadcasting Act for our not-for-profit role.
2:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
While more than 200 community radio stations survived Canada's digital transition, cable community TV has not, as Mr. Manly and Ms. McPherson queried. Cable ownership and technical consolidation have led to the closure of the majority of the 300 former cable studios that launched the careers of a whole generation of Canadian talent—people like Dan Aykroyd, Mike Myers and Guy Maddin.
In 2016, as Mr. Scott acknowledged, the CRTC gave cable companies the green light to redirect most of Canada's $150-million community TV budget from their few remaining corporately branded stations—Rogers TV, Shaw TV and TV Cogeco—to their failing news properties. CACTUS members are trying to fill this gap, but despite our cost efficiency, it still takes seed funding for infrastructure and leadership to reach news deserts. The communities that need community media the most tend to have the least capacity to fund them.
2:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
I'd like to take an opportunity to highlight the local journalism initiative, which is the first federal program to recognize community-owned and -operated media. For an investment of just $1.6 million, our members have extended high-quality civic news coverage to almost 60 communities this year alone. The CBC stations receive an average of $16 million per station from federal funding, while community stations have an average budget of about $150,000.
Our role in Canadian broadcasting is critical, but the support is not there. This can, however, be addressed.
Our first proposal is that there must be a definition in the act of “community media” that recognizes our not-for-profit and community-based structure.
2:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
Second, we request a description of our role, equivalent to that accorded to the CBC. We suggest, as low-hanging fruit, to substitute “community media” for “alternative television programming services” in paragraph 3(1)(r) of the 1991 act. This paragraph was never used, but it almost exactly describes how community media reflect underserved groups.
Third, the creative Canada policy framework, “The Shattered Mirror” and the Yale report barely mention the community element. Policy-makers need guidance in the act regarding how we complement public and private broadcasting in fulfilling its goals. This is the piece the CRTC hasn't gotten. For example, in paragraphs 3(1)(o) and (p), we underscore the role of community media in enabling indigenous and disabled persons to craft their own content. We provide suggested wordings for these amendments in our brief.
2:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
We'll conclude with a quote from the CRTC's 2011 report, “Shaping Regulatory Approaches for the Future”. It said, “Long-term approaches to ensuring the prominence and quality of Canadian production may increase the importance of public and community broadcasters as instruments of public policy.”
Thank you.
2:15 p.m.
Liberal
2:15 p.m.
Jérôme Payette Executive Director, Professional Music Publishers' Association
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.
I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you to discuss this bill, which will be crucial to the future of our culture.
The Professional Music Publishers' Association, or PMPA, represents music publishers in Quebec and French-speaking Canada. Our members control 830 publishing houses with approximately 400,000 musical works.
As partners of songwriters and composers, music publishers support the creation of musical works, and promote and administer them. Publishers are involved in everything from paper scores to online music services to concerts, video games and audiovisual products.
I'd like to mention that our association is a member of the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions, or CDCE, and supports its proposed amendments to Bill C-10.
I'm testifying at the end of the process, and many of the topics that are important to us have already been discussed with you. So I will keep that in mind as I speak.
The bill needs to be amended to meet cultural objectives, and it must be passed quickly.
Canada's broadcasting legislation has been pursuing much the same objective for nearly 100 years, namely, that citizens have access to our content to preserve our identity and culture.
To avoid global cultural standardization, we must think globally and act locally. Canada must protect the diversity of its cultural expressions, especially francophone diversity. To take our place in the world, we have to have our own identity and a flourishing culture.
In the past, Canada has taken bold steps, such as the introduction of radio quotas, and these measures have been copied around the world. I invite you to continue this tradition, whose objectives are as important as ever. We need you to work together to ensure that a bill that supports our culture is passed quickly.
We must level the playing field and not deregulate.
The current legislative and regulatory system exists because market forces can't guarantee the survival of Canadian culture, particularly francophone culture. This is largely a demographic problem, in addition to the fact that we're just north of the country that exports the most culture. This reality hasn't changed because new technologies have emerged; on the contrary, it's gotten worse.
Our cultural industries are fragile; they have emerged through a series of measures, including the Broadcasting Act. If the legislative environment is no longer favourable to us, our cultural industries could disappear or no longer reach Canadians.
The current situation is unfair to conventional broadcasters, that's true. However, regulatory relief would not allow them to recover the advertising revenues and listeners they have lost to online broadcasters. The level of regulation imposed on conventional broadcasters has nothing to do with the changing habits of Canadians.
Foreign companies must be encouraged to contribute to our culture and identity, as conventional broadcasters do. We have to level up. Not doing so would be tantamount to deregulating, which would be tragic for our culture.
We need to be visionary and not exclude social media from the act.
I listened carefully to the testimony of the Minister and the officials who appeared before you on March 8, and I'm not at all reassured. To avoid becoming obsolete as soon as it is passed, the act must apply to all companies that broadcast professional cultural content, without exception.
YouTube is the most popular online music service in Canada, and I'm talking about YouTube, not YouTube Music, which should be distinguished. Under the current provisions of Bill C-10, Spotify and QUB musique would be regulated for the broadcast of a song, while YouTube would not be regulated for the broadcast of the same song, which would be totally unfair.
The term “user-generated content” is imprecise, and Bill C-10 attempts to define a risky uploading process. The content is important, not the process of putting it online. The act must be neutral with respect to technological processes.
Under the wording of Bill C-10, a song or video that is posted online by industry professionals or self-produced professional artists would be exempt from the act. Contrary to what Mr. Ripley told you, distinguishing professional cultural content from amateur video is not difficult. YouTube already distinguishes professional music content from its entire repertoire using metadata.
I would like to point out that the means of broadcasting will continue to evolve, as will the business models, and that people will continue to listen to music and watch videos. The fundamental question is, will people still take in our culture? You have to make sure the answer is yes.
In conclusion, we need all of you to work together to amend and pass a new Bill C-10 that, by levelling the playing field, will establish fair obligations for all companies operating in Canada. This will allow us to avoid destroying the cultural sector, particularly the music sector. Our culture needs you.
Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Scott Simms
Thank you, Mr. Payette.
Now we're going to go to questions.
Mr. Shields, you have six minutes please, to start our questions.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really appreciate it.
Mr. Payette, in all of the witnesses we had, and you have briefly mentioned it.... My granddaughter told me this morning that she paid $80 for a video game that she can play with her brothers in other cities.
Tell us a little about the video. We haven't heard that much about it. Tell us about those people in Canada working on the production of video for games.
2:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Music Publishers' Association
Our members administer musical works that are used in video games, but they are excluded from Bill C-10, as I understand it. So that's not something we wanted to highlight today.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
This is a huge, growing part of the industry, in the sense of what I hear from younger people and the sports that we have connected with it. How big a part of the industry has been ignored under this act?
2:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Music Publishers' Association
It's true that the video game industry is very important, but I don't think it's part of the traditional broadcasting activities that are usually regulated by the Broadcasting Act. That said, you're right that it's an important issue.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
As I see this growing industry and the fact that we have producers who can provide music for it, I think that's a significant piece we've missed. When I listen to youth and what they're doing, this is an extreme part of their life.
2:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Music Publishers' Association
I absolutely agree. Video games are important. Maybe some day we'll wan to include them in the Broadcasting Act. I don't know. We don't have a position on it right now.
We think it would be a good idea to broaden the scope of the act to include all online businesses, including social media, because we're already way behind in that regard.
2:20 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Great. Thank you.
This is for Mr. Freedman. When you and Ms. Edwards talk about the three specific things, what is the most important out of those three, if you were to say how to move this ahead? I understand what local radio and local TV are, because I remember 30 or 40 years ago when it exploded, and then it all disappeared on the TV side—the cable piece.
What's the most important thing out of those three recommendations?
2:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
From our perspective, the most important thing is recognition within the act. Right now, when the conversation happens around the Broadcasting Act, there are three pillars: commercial, public and community broadcasting.
Unfortunately, in that conversation, community broadcasting is very frequently left by the wayside. Billions of dollars are spent supporting public broadcasters. There are a number of production firms that support a number of commercial broadcasters, but community media is left off the table. We're looking for recognition within the act. We have a non-profit, community-based structure.
To your previous question, we support the production and growth of new music providers wherever they go on to take their career—be it video games or wherever. We're the place where all of these people get their chance to begin. Unfortunately, we're not recognized in the Broadcasting Act. There isn't a recognition of the role we play. From our perspective, that's really where we need to see a focus.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
2:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
It's a definition of what we do. It's a recognition that we play a critical role in terms of promoting multilingualism and a variety of different aspects of the Broadcasting Act. There are a number of important goals set out in C-10 that we support wholeheartedly, such as the inclusion of indigenous broadcasters. Again, we're really one of the only places where indigenous languages are heard in these communities. We're one of the only places where they have a chance to get on the air.
We are not recognized within the Broadcasting Act. We see the Yale report come through with nothing but a scant mention of the role of community broadcasters.
The fact that we're there puts us in a position to have conversations with the CRTC about making sure we get funding for these roles and making sure we have a place at the table. That's what is really critical.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
As you mentioned and as we know, the model for traditional broadcasting is that it's not the news that makes the money; it's the advertising. Yours is based on sponsorship.
2:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Community Radio Fund of Canada, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
It's sponsorship and some level of advertising. There's no question that we support small and medium enterprise advertising in many ways. We offer to these local businesses the ability to communicate with their constituencies at a fraction of the cost of commercial broadcasters, so we do have some element of advertising revenue that's critical.
Unfortunately, the reality is that this is also the segment of our economy that has been hardest hit by the pandemic. As we've seen commercial broadcasters grow their role and return to increased funding, we're not seeing that in our advertisers, but we do have a certain role for advertising.
I see Ms. Edwards has something to add.
2:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Community Television Users and Stations
I just wanted to elaborate. You asked what is the most important thing. There are three things we want, which we spelled out in our brief with some suggested wording.
As Alex said, the first thing is a clear definition that this not-for-profit sector exists. Second, what's the role that we're playing? One flows out of the other. Then, as he said, we're always overlooked in reports. Even with a definition, people don't necessarily know how we function in the real world. There are a lot of other clauses in the act where our role could be mentioned.
If we really want to serve indigenous communities so that they can do programming in their languages—some of them are as small as 400, or under 1000 band members—the only way that's going to happen is through community media. Get it into the community media centre; hire someone to teach the kids; teach the elders how to make a production and boom. They can make whatever they want.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
What is your relationship with the indigenous broadcasting organizations?