Evidence of meeting #6 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carlon Big Snake  Small Business Owner, As an Individual
Stacy Allison-Cassin  Chair, Indigenous Matters Committee, Canadian Federation of Library Associations
Derrick Hynes  President and Chief Executive Officer, Federally Regulated Employers - Transportation and Communications
Chief Norman Yakeleya  Dene Nation, Assembly of First Nations
Jean-Charles Piétacho  Innu Chief of Ekuanithit, Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador
Douglas Wolfe  Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Stephen Diotte  Executive Director, Treasury Board Secretariat
Chantal Marin-Comeau  Director General, Reconciliation Secretariat, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Thomas Bigelow
Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Marie-Lise Julien  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Canadian Heritage

2:30 p.m.

Dene Nation, Assembly of First Nations

National Chief Norman Yakeleya

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Madam Committee Member. It's almost like Christmas here. You are asking us, and I am wishing.

I want to thank you for the very important question you've asked. I think the whole issue here is starting to put things into action. We say good words, but it's the system that certainly needs to look at what we are saying and put that into action.

I just met with our elders in the Northwest Territories, and we are starting to put our education system into place. We are a nation of people under our own laws, and our people are saying right now that we are following the federal government laws and the territorial laws that have a say over us, so it's still alive and well today in our justice system, in our language and in who we are as Dene, who we are as indigenous people.

We have our own laws, with our own elders. We have our own justice system. It may be apart from what we are subject to right now. If we want to look at education, we are taking our children and our youth out to the land and teaching them about the laws of the land, how we look at the land and how we would promote ourselves. Right now, there is no support in the system to promote our aboriginal way of life. We are not white people. We are indigenous. We are Indian. We are Dene. That's what we're asking for: the resurgence of who we are.

We understand racism very, very well. It's in our bodies. Ever since we started to go into residential schools, we have had the impacts of racism. As young people, as boys, we were not given names. We were given numbers in the residential school. We were told not to speak our language. The language was called “the devil” by the churches. How can we tell our grandparents that our beautiful Dene language is not from the gods, as they are telling us? How can the church tell us that those words are from the devil?

Those kinds of policies were backed up by the federal government. It was forbidden for us to speak our language or to eat our own food and to be with our families. Everything we were as indigenous people was wrong, so we had to learn a new way of life that was strange for us and is causing us a lot of hardship. We will never be any other persons than Dene people, indigenous people, and we have been fighting for that in our justice system, in our education system and in everything in our lives, even in how we look on our land. That's a really big task.

We're willing to work, but the federal government has to allow us the freedom of something bigger. As Dene people, we were always told to work together with the white people, to work with them but not to be like them, because we are Dene, and that's what we want to maintain.

However, through the residential system, the policies and the churches, everything made us wrong, so we always looked at it as if there was something wrong with us, because we were not taught to support our own language. We remember having soap in our mouths when we spoke our language. They put soap in our mouths to wash them out. The churches did that.

2:35 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I'm sorry for that.

2:35 p.m.

Dene Nation, Assembly of First Nations

National Chief Norman Yakeleya

As I said, we were given a number. As boys, we weren't given a name. I was number 153, so when they said “153” I raised my hand. They didn't say “Norman”. They said “153”.

That's in our blood. We've experienced racism ever since we got into residential schools in our communities. It's still alive and well.

Thank you.

2:35 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you so much.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Chief Yakeleya, thank you so much.

Folks, I was really generous on the time, as you may have noticed. Unfortunately, that only affords us one hour and one round of questioning.

Do I see Mr. Manly in the room? I don't think he is here. I was only going to provide him a short opportunity, but since he is not here, we will have to proceed.

I want to thank Chief Piétacho, and I want to thank Chief Yakeleya as well, for some really compelling testimony. We thank you for bringing your wisdom and your experiences to this committee as we now deliberate for this legislation.

Committee members, we are going to suspend, do audio checks for our department officials and get back on as soon as we can.

Thank you very much again to our witnesses. We really appreciate it.

We will suspend.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Okay, folks, welcome back.

We're in our last hour, where we do our clause-by-clause.

I want to say thank you to the officials who are joining us on the line. From the Department of Canadian Heritage, we have Joëlle Montminy and Emmanuelle Sajous. You have very long titles and probably have the largest business cards of anyone I know, and so I'll just use the department, if that's okay, for the sake of time.

We also have.... I just exhausted the list and I don't think I have the others. I apologize. I'll have to ask you to introduce yourselves.

Those from the labour program, please introduce yourselves. Sorry about that.

2:40 p.m.

Douglas Wolfe Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Good afternoon. I'm Douglas Wolfe from the labour program. I'm a senior director within the labour program.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

We also have Treasury Board with us.

November 20th, 2020 / 2:40 p.m.

Stephen Diotte Executive Director, Treasury Board Secretariat

Yes, I'm Stephen Diotte, the executive director of strategic compensation management for Treasury Board.

2:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much.

Finally, we have Indigenous Affairs.

2:40 p.m.

Chantal Marin-Comeau Director General, Reconciliation Secretariat, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Good afternoon. My name is Chantal Marin-Comeau and I'm the director general for the reconciliation secretariat with Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. It's a pleasure to be here.

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you. It's a pleasure to have you.

Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate this.

Of course, members, during the deliberations on clause-by-clause, if you have any specific questions, you now know who is with us regarding the officials. Please feel free to ask them questions at any point.

(On clause 1)

Let's start with clause 1.

Shall clause 1 carry?

Mr. Rayes—

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.

Not that I want to prolong the meeting, but I believe that an amendment was duly tabled by Mr. Rayes in section 1, and he should be putting forward his amendment, shouldn't he?

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

That was my thought as well.

2:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Mr. Chair, I have my hand up, as you can see.

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Mr. Waugh, I sincerely apologize.

2:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

That's okay. My hand is up.

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

I didn't have the right screen.

Mr. Rayes, I apologize as well.

Thank you, Mr. Housefather, for your point of order.

Mr. Waugh, you have the floor, sir.

2:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I have several amendments. Would you like me to do them one by one, or all at once? What is the protocol you'd like?

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

How about we go through this.... We only have six clauses. I suggest that we start by using clause 1 and your amendment there. If everyone wants to know what he is talking about, it's CPC-1, his first amendment.

Why don't we do them one by one? I realize it's a Friday afternoon, but since we only have six clauses, I thought we would do it this way.

Mr. Waugh, you have the floor.

2:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The amendment is:

That Bill C-5, in Clause 1, be amended

(a) by replacing line 4 on page 1 with the following:

“Short Title

1 This Act may be cited as the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation Act.

Purpose of this Act

2 The purpose of this Act is to respond to the Truth and”

(b) by replacing line 6 on page 1 with the following:

“number 80 by establishing the National Day”

That's it, Mr. Chair.

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

That's it, Mr. Waugh?

2:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

For that clause.

2:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Well, I'm going to give my ruling.

I want to start this ruling by quoting from House of Commons Procedure and Practice. This is from page 770. I'll try to do this slowly for the sake of our interpreters. It says:

An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.

If you read the bill, you will see that Bill C-5 amends several acts for the sole purpose of creating a new legal holiday. That was prescribed by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Specifically, call to action number 80 is what people refer to and what this bill refers to, as a legal concept.

This amendment proposes to remove the concept of a legal holiday and replace it with a symbolic holiday. As you know, after second reading, once we accept the bill in principle and scope, we cannot go back on that, as the House by a majority voted for it.

This amendment goes beyond the principle and scope of the bill. Therefore, the amendment is inadmissible. In my opinion, the amendment is contrary to the principle of the bill.

The ruling also applies to other amendments, by the same token. I'll use the numbers that are ascribed, in the top right-hand corner of the sheets that you have, folks. The ruling applies to amendments CPC-2, CPC-3 and CPC-7, since they are consequential in what they plan to do and are similar in purpose to CPC-1.

Monsieur Rayes.

2:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't know if I'm allowed to make a comment at this stage.

The amendments proposed by Mr. Waugh and the Conservative Party have only one objective. We agree on the principle—