Evidence of meeting #6 for Canadian Heritage in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carlon Big Snake  Small Business Owner, As an Individual
Stacy Allison-Cassin  Chair, Indigenous Matters Committee, Canadian Federation of Library Associations
Derrick Hynes  President and Chief Executive Officer, Federally Regulated Employers - Transportation and Communications
Chief Norman Yakeleya  Dene Nation, Assembly of First Nations
Jean-Charles Piétacho  Innu Chief of Ekuanithit, Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador
Douglas Wolfe  Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Stephen Diotte  Executive Director, Treasury Board Secretariat
Chantal Marin-Comeau  Director General, Reconciliation Secretariat, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Thomas Bigelow
Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Marie-Lise Julien  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Canadian Heritage

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I appreciate that information. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left or am I done?

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

You have 39 seconds. Make the most of it.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

I think in 39 seconds I won't achieve much.

Thank you to all of our witnesses.

I will yield the floor to my colleague from the Bloc Québécois.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for six minutes.

November 20th, 2020 / 1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today. Their testimony is very enlightening.

I will turn first to Ms. Allison-Cassin.

You brought up the issue of indigenous languages. Clearly, for the Bloc Québécois, the issue of language is very important. We are talking a lot about it these days.

We know that a number of indigenous languages are under threat and that some have probably already disappeared or are spoken very little. A group of young people in the country is trying to revive the indigenous language that their grandparents spoke, but that they have almost never spoken. I find that to be an extraordinary initiative. It's a lovely story. It's a great way to value indigenous culture and make it better known.

Does your federation have the means to assist an initiative like that? Do you feel that it's an initiative that can be spread more widely in the country to save indigenous languages, which are very powerful cultural tools?

1:10 p.m.

Chair, Indigenous Matters Committee, Canadian Federation of Library Associations

Stacy Allison-Cassin

Thank you for your question and for picking up on the importance of indigenous language.

Again, I will say that the Federation of Library Associations is an advocacy group in terms of supporting our member associations and their work. Certainly for the indigenous matters group, raising awareness around the need to support indigenous languages in libraries and other spaces is part of the work we do in raising that awareness.

I was mentioning earlier the issue of subject headings. This is one of the chief ways we access materials. We access not only materials in the language, but we need to access materials through platforms and subject headings.

We know it is important for people to be able to navigate to materials in their language, not just through English. That is one area where we are advocating that sites like public libraries or academic libraries consider ways of implementing systems that will support not only language revitalization but that language usage as well.

That is certainly something we seek to support library or member associations in doing, because, as we know, part of.... As I mentioned in my story, my own grandmother did not teach the language to her children. My father could never speak to his grandparents, who spoke a mixture of French and Anishinaabemowin. He could never speak to them because they did not speak the same language, so for me it is also personally important.

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

Thank you.

If initiatives are already underway in academic institutions, I imagine that you will begin initiatives in elementary schools, for example, in order to make the children more aware of that culture from their early years in school.

Do you have initiatives along those lines? If so, what are they?

Generally speaking, how open are the teachers and educators across the country?

1:10 p.m.

Chair, Indigenous Matters Committee, Canadian Federation of Library Associations

Stacy Allison-Cassin

I would have to get back to you on specific issues around public schools. My personal experience is more at the academic level, but I have been working on a project to look at the subject heading front and to look at implementing systems to access materials through indigenous languages, so we're supporting multilingual systems.

We know software often doesn't come out of the box all the time as multilingual, so it's important, too, to advocate for software.

Also, I will say that it's also important to connect, through our member associations, with other initiatives at the international level that are supporting indigenous knowledge and languages as well.

Part of it is supporting the availability of materials and the purchase of materials in indigenous languages, but it's also making them accessible through the means of the language. There are numerous projects. I would be happy to connect you with some of those resources.

1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC

My question goes to Mr. Big Snake.

You said that your wife and yourself are, in a way, the descendants of indigenous residential schools.

What obstacles did you have to overcome in order to heal the consequences of what you experienced in the residential schools?

1:15 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

Thank you to the witnesses for their comments.

Through our experience I felt.... I was pretty well raised by my grandparents. I'll step back a bit here to let you know that both my parents spoke fluent Blackfoot. I'm the only boy in my family out of five, and my four sisters also speak fluent Blackfoot. One of the impacts is that I did stay the majority of time with my grandparents, and they as well spoke fluent Blackfoot. However, both my grandparents did tell me at that time that I had to learn how to speak English as much as I could. I could not speak the Blackfoot language. Unfortunately, I never did ask why. What was the reason I could not speak my language?

That's no blame to my grandparents. They wanted good for me, but that has an impact. Today I feel that I do my best. I do comprehend and understand the Blackfoot language. Speaking it is a challenge for me. That's one of the impacts I have due to the fact that my grandparents wanted to see the best for me. However, they were told that we needed to do away with our Blackfoot language. It was an omen.

With that system, my wife's mother was pregnant while she was in residential school. The only way for her mother to escape the residential school system was to get pregnant. She was a single parent. The day my wife was born in 1967 [Technical difficulty—Editor] she was taken from the [Technical difficulty] due to the fact that her mom could not care for her. Those two scenarios had an impact on her—

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Mr. Big Snake, I'm sorry. Please finish your thought. I'm going to have to go to the next questioner, but go ahead.

1:15 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

Those are the experiences. It has an impact and it has affected our children. They want to speak their language, and both of us.... Actually, my wife is Cree. We'd like to teach my children how to speak the language, and not only them but our grandchildren.

Thank you.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much.

Ms. McPherson, you have six minutes, please.

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all our witnesses for being here and sharing with us today.

Of course, I have some questions for a number of you, but I think I'll start with Mr. Big Snake.

Mr. Big Snake, I'm also from Alberta. You can probably recognize the snow behind me.

1:15 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

Yes. Hi, there.

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

It's what we're dealing with here. We know a little more about this than other parts of the country.

Thank you for your comments on residential schools and sharing what you have gone through.

As you know, in Alberta right now we have a provincial government that is bringing forward a curriculum that is looking at removing any reference to residential schools from our provincial curriculum, which is of course extremely disturbing for me and I'm sure for you.

Do you think having a day for truth and reconciliation, even when provincial governments don't take their responsibility to educate children across the country on residential schools, will give us a better opportunity to do so? Also, what are the impacts of that? Could you speak to that a little bit, please?

1:15 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

Thank you.

I agree. I think that's very sad. I totally disagree with the position the Province of Alberta is taking regarding this situation, but I believe that the impact here.... As you know, there are certain incidents that are occurring in Alberta based on racism. Our fellow people have witnessed a lot of that in what's happening in Alberta, particularly. As you know, in Red Deer a Black Lives Matter protest, with the help of aboriginal organizations, was interrupted. Particularly, the RCMP took one side.

My comment today is that I feel that indigenous people in Alberta are separated from anything that we do, whether it's being an entrepreneur...and that has an impact. I think that at this point in time, considering the national holiday is a start. It sends a message. There is nothing across Canada to recognize anything for first nations or indigenous people. Should this happen, I think it will have a big impact.

There are 94 calls to action. I think there are only seven that have been recommended now. This is a good start. We need to send that message, particularly to the provinces as well. It's all about us.

Thank you.

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Dr. Cassin. You spoke a little bit about how your children or your family are doing education at the kitchen table, as so many Canadians are across the country, and how it had such meaning to see how Orange Shirt Day was being done.

I also have children. They also spent a lot of the last nine months at our kitchen table doing their schooling.

One thing I was reflecting on when you were talking about that was how important Remembrance Day has become in our national identity, and how children learn so much because we have that day set aside. It's not necessarily recognized as a holiday both federally and provincially, but it is an almost universally acknowledged important day of memory to recognize what people have endured, what people have sacrificed. I think having that day is so important in making that a reality.

Could you talk a little bit about how you would see the truth and reconciliation day, the day on September 30, and the lessons we could learn from Remembrance Day, and how libraries could use that day to continue to bring forward these ideas of information and education?

1:20 p.m.

Chair, Indigenous Matters Committee, Canadian Federation of Library Associations

Stacy Allison-Cassin

I was reflecting as I was preparing for today that I had witnessed my children doing Remembrance Day, which has just passed, remotely. They even had remote Remembrance Day assemblies. Again, I'm so grateful to Phyllis Webstad and the way that Orange Shirt Day has now become, even just in the past two or three years, something that is happening at schools. I know that three years ago, when my children were a bit younger, it was not necessarily marked in the same way.

Like Remembrance Day, a day such as this would allow, for example, school libraries to pull together materials in a display, or for children to be able to begin to prepare. We know with the number of other ways that we mark days in Canada—Canada Day, for example—that it isn't just the day, that there is preparation beforehand, and teaching of why we hold this day important. It's not just that there is a holiday on this day, but there is a reason for the holiday.

We have all of those preparations. Now we have Christmas starting up, I suppose, and we prepare well ahead of time. We see that they allow for numerous kinds of preparations, not only for schoolchildren but, as I was mentioning, for adults as well. Why not have ways of reading about the TRC, book club ideas, or reading different kinds of materials and allowing for displays, exhibits, lesson plans, all of those ways that we can think about? Again, when we go into our public spaces and we see Remembrance Day or Canada Day displays go up, we would see the same thing for a national day of truth and reconciliation.

I think that has impact because, again, it's about demonstrating that it is important, like in Remembrance Day, that we do not forget. We remember those experiences. Even as we have fewer and fewer veterans left from the Second World War, we still remember. I think in the same way it allows for that gathering and that learning beforehand.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Scott Simms

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to our second round.

Mr. Shields, you have five minutes.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Right. Thank you.

I agree with Mr. Housefather about the critical role. I was vice-president of the Alberta Library Trustees' Association for many years. Here's the problem for libraries: They don't have money. They don't have money. Unless we're willing to direct money to libraries, which I would advocate, they don't have the money or the resources to do this. I believe in what you said, but we need to give them the money to do it.

Mr. Hynes, your consideration of a 2022 implementation due to cost—that's an interesting one.

Mr. Big Snake, I've had the occasion to be at events with you and have listened to you. You are very intelligent and passionate. You talked in your comments about people coming to your nation. You have a residential school that's still being used. You have the world-class Blackfoot Crossing. How would you envision bringing people to learn about this on this day and more?

1:25 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

My background is in economic development. I think the impact here, to go back to my earlier comments, is in the education system. We need to educate a lot of people out there. We're still not sending the message.

Our facilities here, particularly the interpretive centre, can provide that. It invites people right across, worldwide, and it's there for a purpose. I don't know if any of you have been there. When you enter the building, you see a lot of history about residential schools. I've seen a lot of people, non-indigenous people, come out of there crying. They want to learn more. We have provided that information to them to understand what the livelihoods were. I think having an indigenous national day will help a lot of people come out to first nation lands and understand that. That will create economic activity, not only for first nations but on and off reserves. I feel that now it's time to do that, to take those opportunities and expand them, working with first nations.

Yes, we do have our old residential school standing up, but as I said in my comments, we have to take something that's negative and make it positive. We converted that old residential school into a community college, where our people are taking their education to the next level. The facility, I'm proud to say, as a former leader, [Technical difficulty—Editor] that we have doctors, lawyers, dentists, nurses, teachers—you name it. We have a lot of professional people, and I'm proud of that.

Again, I invite the world to Siksika. I believe other first nations would like to do the same on this day.

Thank you, Martin. It's good to see you.

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

You bet. You too. I hope more and more people get to see Blackfoot Crossing. It is a phenomenal exhibit and a phenomenal place that people need to see.

That, I guess, is what we're saying: that from your point of view, people need to come to your nation. They need to walk in those footsteps.

1:25 p.m.

Small Business Owner, As an Individual

Carlon Big Snake

Exactly. They'll have a good opportunity to see what happened in history, to see the past. I think that's really important. They need to visualize it. That's where you can see the visualization of what really happened.

It's a touching story. I cannot.... I keep saying to people, “Come out to Siksika. See for yourself.”

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Possibly they can take the opportunity to visit with you and your significant contribution in terms of the white buffalo. What you've acquired is a phenomenal story as well.