Canadian Heritage Committee on June 6th, 2022

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I do, Mr. Julian. First of all, the CRTC, whatever it does in regulations, has to respect freedom of expression.

Second, the bill makes things very clear. It was there before in the original Broadcasting Act. We brought some other elements into this act. This is the sad part of the previous debate on Bill C-10, which took place on freedom of expression, which was an aside. It had nothing to do with the bill, and the entire debate happened on that, while the bill was about something else.

This bill does not attack freedom of expression. It's not about freedom of expression. It's about streamers that make a lot of money here, and to contribute to Canadian culture. That's it.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You're satisfied that the bill very clearly upholds freedom of expression, as a number of our witnesses have also mentioned.

There was, I believe, a bit of a difference of opinion around the CRTC when it originally appeared. The chair of the CRTC, Ian Scott, talked about user-generated content. He said that there is an ability to regulate under the Broadcasting Act now, under user-generated content. When he appeared the second time after a filibuster, he said very clearly, and the CRTC representatives did, as well, that there is a very narrow scope around user-generated content.

Is it your feeling, as well, that this very narrow interpretation is sufficient?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

As I said, the CRTC is not interested in the content.

The only reason we will be interested in user-uploaded content is when it has a commercial component. We will only be interested in commercial content that can be found on YouTube and Spotify. Again, I'm simplifying, but that's basically it. Otherwise, the CRTC will not focus on content at all. Imagine the resources it would take for any regulator, whether it's the CRTC or the equivalent body in England or Australia, to look at every video and make a judgment. People have tried to scare online creators by saying that the CRTC will look at their videos and make a judgment that it's not right and they shouldn't be there.

That's not it at all. The CRTC will look at the content only to determine if it is commercial in nature. If it is, it will check whether it is part of the overall revenue, so based on advertising. This will enable it to calculate the percentage of contribution and the type of commercial content. There is also discoverability. We'll be able to know what we can do to make our artists a little better known.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you,

In some of the testimony we heard, there was mention of the OUTtv channel, which was sidelined by several distributors, even though representatives from that channel had said they wanted to be there and offer content. Several distributors did not want this channel.

Are such cases of exclusion—in this one, the exclusion of an entire community—addressed in Bill C‑11?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I am quite familiar with the case of OUTtv. I had the opportunity to meet their representatives when I was in Vancouver, in your area, as well as here.

In my view, what will help them, generally speaking, are the objectives of the bill ensuring that, for the production of Canadian content, including their own, there will be more revenue and resources.

Mr. Ripley, do you want to elaborate on that?

[Thomas Owen Ripley, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Julian.

I have been following the testimony of the OUTtv representatives. Right now, Bill C‑11 includes a tool, which is the power of the CRTC to require Amazon Prime Video Channels, for example, to include certain Canadian channels in their service. The parties are expected to negotiate in good faith...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

I apologize. I have to interrupt you in order to carry on.

This concludes our six-minute round.

We'll now go to our five-minute round. I will be very ruthless in this round, so we can get the full round in. We have 25 minutes left, and 25 minutes' worth of questions. We'll try to get the whole round in.

Here is a reminder for the sake of the interpreters: When there's a question and comment, try not to have the microphones on at the same time and talk over each other. That's a challenge for the interpreters.

For this second round, Mrs. Thomas, you have exactly five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Minister, you keep using the term “commercial content”. Is that in the bill?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes. Commercial content is what we're trying to define in order to see whether it's replacing things you see—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Is “commercial content”, then, a legal term used in the bill?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's a term used in the bill, yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

How do you define “commercial content”?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We're giving guidance to the CRTC based on whether the revenues...and whether the content is found elsewhere, and the unique number. It's not one of the three. We're giving this to the CRTC, and they have to take those three into consideration when they draft the regulations.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

What is the revenue you're looking for, in order to know whether or not it's going to be regulated?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

There is no number.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

There is no number.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Who will determine that number, then?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It has nothing to do with a number. It's not the determination of a number.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Minister, you just said it was based on revenue...whether or not it was commercial content. What is that revenue number?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

If there are revenues, the CRTC will take those three criteria and draft regulations that will take the three elements into consideration.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

What's that revenue cut-off?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

There's no revenue cut-off. You know that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm asking you for clarification. When you say this bill is going after “commercial content”, what's the number? How much revenue do you have to make in order to be counted as commercial content?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You know there isn't one. Those are directions—criteria given to the CRTC to draw up the regulations.