Canadian Heritage Committee on June 14th, 2022

[Thomas Owen Ripley]

In essence, this would add an additional policy objective. If I understood its placement correctly, it would follow on from those that speak to the discoverability of Canadian programming services and whatnot. The only thing I would highlight is that (q), which is the proposed paragraph it falls under, speaks specifically to “online undertakings that provide programming services of other broadcasting undertakings”.

Traditionally, what we would call those is virtual broadcasting distribution undertakings, or something of that nature—that would be your Amazon channels, for example. Specifically, this policy objective would speak only to those kinds of broadcasting services. It wouldn't apply to other kinds of programming services. I just highlight that consideration for the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Ripley.

Is there any further discussion?

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I go now to BQ-10.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, we propose to replace lines 12 to 14 on page 7 with the following:

guages, so as to generate results allowing its discovery; and

Give me a second, Madam Chair, I'm looking for something in my papers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Martin, do you wish to speak further?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, but someone else can speak while I look for my document.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

We have concerns that the amendment would narrow the platforms' abilities to promote and recommend programs, as it would be tied to search results.

We want a more flexible system that gives Canadians more choices with platforms. Although it's well intentioned, unfortunately, we oppose the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I was just trying to give Mr. Champoux the chance to find his papers, so I'll withdraw.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You could speak while he's finding his papers, Mr. Julian. I know you would not turn that opportunity down.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm still trying to find my own papers, Madam Chair.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's fine, Madam Chair, I found my papers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay, Martin, please go ahead.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I would like to respond to what Mr. Bittle said.

It's precisely in order to establish a less limited way of obtaining results that we're proposing to eliminate the part of the sentence in proposed subparagraph 3(1)(r) that says “and ensure that any means of control of the programming generates results” and to replace the wording so that it says “so as to generate results allowing its discovery”.

In fact, since programming control is an issue for online undertakings, we do not want the wording to be used as an argument for them not to achieve the desired results.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion on BQ-10?

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 2 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're now going to go to NDP-8.

I'm trying to find my piece of paper that says the ones you removed, Peter. I'm not finding it. Was NDP-8 one of them?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, it was not, Madam Chair. This is something that has been raised by Cactus, by community radio and by RQ, and that is the issue of community broadcasting. Basically, it would ensure that programming provided by the community element should be innovative and complementary, catering to tastes and interests not adequately provided for by the programming provided for mass audiences; reflect Canada's communities, regions, indigenous and multicultural nature; support new and emerging Canadian creative talent through community participation; strengthen the democratic process and support countering disinformation, and be available throughout Canada so that Canadians can engage in dialogue on matters of public concern.

We heard from a number of witnesses in this regard.

I move that amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Chair, I think this would be a good time for me to take the floor, very briefly, just to say that the language of the motion that this committee passed after the last election guarantees a right to speak to each amendment, regardless of whether it has been been negatived by a previous amendment.

I want to speak to say that my next amendment, PV-3, is identical to the motion that has just been presented by the New Democrats.

Obviously, I completely support that this committee adopt the amendment as a New Democratic Party amendment. It really is important. The current term in the bill, which is “alternative television programming services” is not as clearly defined as the language that Peter Julian has just read out. I don't need to repeat it.

It would add a lot to the legislation to accept this amendment. Having said that, I don't need to take the floor again.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. May.

I want to let everyone know that if NDP-8 is adopted, PV-3, which Ms. May just spoke to, becomes moot since they are identical. If NDP-8 is defeated, so will PV-3 be, for the same reason.

Shall we call the question on NDP-8, unless there is further discussion?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'm asking for a clarification, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I think it's interesting to say that, in my opinion, BQ-11 is also at play if we adopt NDP-8.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't have that note.

Perhaps Mr. Méla might comment on that.

[Philippe Méla]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Champoux, you are indeed right. These amendments are related without really being related, in the sense that they are not the same. It is up to the committee to choose the one that suits it best.