Canadian Heritage Committee on June 20th, 2022

[Tom Renney]

I would like to think that today's proceedings, which we completely embrace, will help everyone understand that responsibility is important and we take it seriously, and that we have not normalized the function of women and assault at all.

My suggestion to you is that on a go-forward basis.... We anticipate that what Mr. Smith identified as our safe sport director and executive will help us along those lines to make sure that the dialogue is appropriate and all-encompassing, not just of women but of anyone who might be marginalized, for example.

That being said, I believe strongly that we are on the right path to dispel any expectations that we might be marginalizing women.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

In addition, Glen McCurdie, the vice-president for insurance and risk management at your organization, took up his position in 2018. He describes himself in his LinkedIn profile as an expert on insurance claims, including claims related to sexual assault.

Isn't it somewhat strange to see that he was promoted in July 2018, only a month after the incident in question?

Was he promoted on merit? If not, how many sexual assault allegation cases has he handled for Hockey Canada?

[Tom Renney]

I do not know to what level Mr. McCurdie worked on sexual assault cases. I do not have that information. I know that it certainly was not a function of his gaining any type of a promotion, because of what we would have considered success in that field. He is very good at what he does. He has served Hockey Canada well. We respect that and endorse that. There's no question about it.

I can tell you right now that anything that would appear to be marginalizing women is inaccurate. Going forward, that will not be the case as we identify what we need internally, as far as staff is concerned, to help us do our due diligence in that area.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Since you mentioned the need to do what has to be done, I'd like briefly to go back over the code of conduct issue. You talked about expanding its scope, and you said it would henceforth apply off the ice as well.

What will the consequences of applying that code of conduct to tournaments be? What more could that do?

Could that code of conduct help prevent the kind of incident in question here?

[Tom Renney]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We believe that we can improve on the scope and skill of what we do in our code of conduct right now. Our code of conduct, as it sits with our high-performance programs and in competition, has zero tolerance for any type of a breach of the code. Where I think we have an issue internally is that the lines are blurred when it comes outside of the code of conduct for events such as our Order of Hockey in Canada and gala, but also symposium seminars, clinics or whatever the case may be.

Again, I look forward to the work of our director of safe sport to help us along the lines of making sure that we identify ways and means with which to mitigate any issues we may have for women in our country.

We don't know that we have all the answers at this point in time. We certainly don't profess to. As Mr. Smith stated earlier, we are far from perfect, but we are not at all—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. I think your time is up. You can finish that thought with another question that may be asked of you.

I'll go to Peter Julian for two and half minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As a number of other committee members have mentioned, these are alleged perpetrators of horrific sexual assault. You mentioned earlier, Mr. Renney, that there is zero tolerance for violations of the code of conduct, but at the same time there was an investigation in which, it appears, the majority of the members of the team did not participate.

What is the code of conduct worth if you don't participate when there are alleged horrific sexual assaults? Shouldn't that be a condition of being involved in any way with Hockey Canada? Isn't that a fundamental violation of the code of conduct?

[Tom Renney]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I believe it is. That's where, as I mentioned, the line is blurred between what we do and what we have our players adhere to in competition and where, under the jurisdiction of Hockey Canada.... Even though at an event like the gala event I think there was misinterpretation, I don't know that we represented the code of conduct as accurately and precisely as we should have for those players attending the gala to understand what would have been in everyone's best interest in the first place.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Everyone knows right and wrong, though. Everyone knows that horrific sexual assault is wrong. I don't understand why Hockey Canada did not enforce a rule that every single member of that team had to be part of the investigation and had to co-operate with the investigation by Henein Hutchison.

I have a short time, so I will move to another question, and that is around your testimony, Mr. Smith, that we are seeing assaults. You mentioned one to two per year over the last five to six years. Is it accurate to say that we're looking at about a dozen cases over the last five to six years?

You mentioned earlier as well that two assaults currently being investigated are of the same nature as those horrific alleged sexual assaults that we have seen in this case that's before us.

[Scott Smith]

I didn't comment on the investigation. I think I told you that I couldn't. I shared with you that we have reported three to Sport Canada. This is one of them.

If I could just step back for a second to the incidents from 2018, we weren't able to confirm through our third party investigator what happened that evening, so although the code of conduct has been strengthened, it's not as though we're condoning the behaviour that potentially happened that evening. We were not able to confirm who was involved and what happened that evening.

I think a lot of people are taking the allegations and the statement of claim as fact. I'm not in a position to debate many of those allegations because I'm not aware, but I do know that three of them are clearly not true. There's an allegation that we didn't report it to the London Police Service. We did. There's an allegation that we didn't have a third party investigation. We did. There's also an allegation that we didn't offer support to the young woman, but we did.

The challenge we have is that despite extensive efforts over, I believe, a 26-month period, we were not able to confirm what happened that evening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, but can someone tell me what's going on?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Well, Madam Chair, if you're permitting me another question, I will certainly take it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, I'm not, Peter. I know you would take it.

What I'm asking is whether that was the end of the answer to your question.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That was the end of the answer, but I'm perfectly willing to ask another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, I know. Thank you, Peter.

Now we're going to go to Richard Martel for the Conservatives, for five minutes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I want to thank the witnesses for being with us to discuss this important matter today.

These players currently represent Hockey Canada, and they have a responsibility in that regard. What concerns me is the way they are supervised. When they take part in a fundraiser, they represent Hockey Canada, even if they aren't participating in a tournament.

I'd like to know more about how you supervise these players. Are they aware of the fact that they represent Hockey Canada at those events?

[Tom Renney]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, I can tell you that during competition we have very strict measures with which to provide oversight to the players, staff in general, and obviously the volunteers who help us at these events. I can tell you it's my belief that at an event such as the gala, for example, as was suggested by the independent report, we needed to strengthen our supervision over the event of that evening and certainly our players. I cannot hide and duck from that. I would tell you that I agree with that. That is a fault of ours for sure, and it would certainly be represented in the code of conduct as it is now, moving forward.

I appreciate your concern. I don't disagree with it. I take responsibility for where that sits today, as I did then. I think we've improved upon that, but there's no question: Your concerns are legitimate. We shared them and we are working hard, as I mentioned earlier, with respect to the independent report to rectify the problem of supervision at non-hockey or non-competitive events. I think, as I mentioned earlier as well, that the line was blurred there, and we fell short.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Do you have a mechanism to ensure that players are held accountable for their conduct at all times when representing Team Canada, in this instance, whether at events such as the one we're discussing or as part of the team?

[Scott Smith]

In the follow-up to the events of 2018, we have had only one year-end celebration because of the pandemic, and that was in 2019. We took extra measures there that were consistent with what we take around our on-ice events, whether that be camps or tournaments, selection camps or the actual world championship event. We believe that we've structured an environment that has stricter protocols and stronger supervision, and we believe that our code of conduct has been improved and strengthened. The education and code of conduct give us an opportunity to address those issues, but our approach is preventive measures, as I think you and all Canadians would expect.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

How will you feel if the National Hockey League sanctions the players following its investigation, even though Hockey Canada hasn't done so in the past?

[Scott Smith]

Madam Chair, if the young woman were to come forward or there were any additional information, we would immediately re-engage our third party investigation law firm. We would have them conduct their business, as they did from June 2018 through until September 2020. We would re-engage in the investigative process. Any actions or any discipline that would be required out of that we would then turn over to the three-person adjudication panel that we appointed in 2018 to do just that.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 24 seconds.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Smith, you say you've worked hard to improve the corporate culture over the past four years.

What observations have you made on the change in culture? Do you have any specific examples?

What remains to be done to improve corporate culture in the hockey world?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. I think we're going to have to answer that in another round with another questioner.

I'll go to Lisa Hepfner for the Liberals, please, for five minutes.