Canadian Heritage Committee on June 20th, 2022

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think the last question had to do with culture in hockey, and that's exactly where I was going to go anyway.

The minister, as we know, has said that the culture in hockey has to change. You made comments to that effect today. I'm wondering if you can describe what about the hockey culture needs to change. Whichever witness feels it is most appropriate can respond.

I'd also like to give you the opportunity to give us more detail about the things you've done over the past few years to try to address the problems that allow things like mass violence against women to happen at a hockey event, which of course is very shocking to all of us.

[Scott Smith]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I'll speak to what we did in the fall of 2018 with respect to our code of conduct. I've made reference to it, but I'll touch on it briefly. I think we strengthened our code of conduct. We furthered our education and our requirements. We have also been in a process of adding to our education initiatives training with respect to sexual assault and references to our code of conduct, as well as morality clauses.

We're in the process right now.... We've engaged a third party consultant to review all of our education initiatives. That's everything from abuse to bullying, harassment, sexual misconduct, compliance, etc. I really believe that we need to have a thorough assessment of our education initiatives to make sure that we are comfortable—not just we in this room, but all Canadians—that our education initiatives are driving the change that we desire in hockey.

I would tell you, quite frankly, that we probably are behind, because of the two years of stop-and-start in sport due to the pandemic. We're not unique in sport in having that situation, but we are driven to make sure that every Canadian understands that we want to further our education.

I've said publicly that I don't want education to be a box-checking exercise. I don't want to check the box and say, “Yes, I took that education initiative.” I want people to invest their time in education that is going to drive the change in behaviour that we all desire and that Canadians can be really proud of.

We're reviewing all of our education initiatives, and we'll do that over the next, I believe, eight to 10 months. These include initiatives around abuse, bullying and harassment, where we have been leaders in sport through our work with Respect Group since back in the early 2000s, I want to say.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

To follow up, I think we've heard today that you've been dealing with one to two cases a year. I'm sure we all know that not all cases get reported. Not all cases are known about.

How widespread is this problem?

[Scott Smith]

Those are cases that have been reported at the national level. As I mentioned earlier, we just recently hired a director of safe sport. We will be building out a safe sport department that will allow us to continue to address any issues that come to us at the national level. We'll also be working through our membership of 13 members across the country and building out safe sport requirements with them—and probably additional people within that department—to make sure we can handle things that come in varying degrees of issues, whether they are abuse or harassment at the local, the member or the national level.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have one minute, Lisa.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm wondering what you take from the evidence we've heard today that many players who may have been involved didn't participate in the investigation.

What do you think that says, and what do you think it means?

[Scott Smith]

I'll be honest with you: I'm not sure what it means. I think it's part of the reason we're driven to review with our partners. We borrow these players. It's an ability for us, if we ever need to—hopefully, we never do—to look at strengthening our ability on a go-forward basis to compel individuals to participate in investigations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

This round is over. We're going to the third round. It is, again, a five-minute round.

I'll begin with the Conservatives and Karen Vecchio. Karen, you have five minutes.

We can't hear you, Karen. I'm going to stop the clock.

Can a technician help Ms. Vecchio?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Chair, we're going to go to Madame Ferreri and then come back to Ms. Vecchio.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I was going to suggest that we do something like that. Thank you.

We have Ms. Ferreri for five minutes, please.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

I want to start by talking about the amount of money Hockey Canada is getting from the federal government, the $14 million in federal funds. I know you've said on the record that none of this federal money was used to pay the victim. Where did the money come from?

[Scott Smith]

I believe I stated that earlier. We liquidated a portion of our investments and we used that to settle this lawsuit.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Can you be a little more specific? What we have here says that there is “$9.64 million in insurance premiums” in your fiscal 2021 “for everything from incidental medical and dental treatment to third-party sexual misconduct”. You actually have insurance for third party sexual misconduct liability. Of that $9.64 million, how much is always going to third party sexual misconduct liability?

[Scott Smith]

I apologize. I don't have that available to me here today.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Can you get that for us, please?

[Scott Smith]

I think we would be happy to share that with the minister and the compliance audit; any of the financial discussions we look forward to confirming through the audit process.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

With the committee, not just the minister. Thank you.

[Scott Smith]

Okay. I'm sorry.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think there have been some troubling things come out of today's testimony—I want to go on record here—with quotes like “we borrow” them.

With all due respect, they're under your watch. As a mom, if you have my son or my daughter and they do something on your watch, you're accountable for that. To say you're borrowing them and that you're not responsible is upsetting.

[Scott Smith]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't believe I said we borrowed them in the context that we're not accountable. I said that these players play on a full-time basis in other leagues and we “borrow” them for our national team program.

We took responsibility and we hold accountability, and that is the very reason we undertook the process in June 2018, as well as in recent weeks, to settle the lawsuit. I never used the word “borrow” to avoid our responsibility or accountability in this area, and I would hope that you and all Canadians hear me say that.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Why did you wait four years to hire a safe sport coordinator—only when it became public—if you care so much?

[Scott Smith]

The two are not related at all. I think reference was made in Mr. Renney's opening statement to the fact that we had the retirement of a long-term employee. That then allowed us to reorganize our department that used to be responsible for insurance and risk management.

We've separated the insurance and risk management and created a new safe sport department. I think we followed on the principles that have come through all sports with respect to safe sport over the last number of months. The hiring of a safe sport manager has nothing to do with this. It has everything to do with our trying to be best in class in that area.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you for that.

I guess what I ask is, do all three of you think these eight players should be known and identified? Much as we have in a similar situation for a school, you would have it made public to parents if somebody had a record as somebody who could be a danger.

We can go back to Mr. Waugh's comment about whether these players are going to go out and coach or play. Do you think they should even be allowed to play?

[Tom Renney]

We are certainly paying very close attention to the young woman and her wishes at this point in time. Should that manifest itself into more, where our legal assistance chooses to have that discussion about further information to be forthcoming, we would look forward to that and look forward to that level of participation between the two legal concerns.

I can't tell you right now that anything usurps what concerns me more—because I'm a father of two girls—than what this young lady is going through. I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned that if she in fact wishes not to be identified and at this point in time wishes the players not to be identified, I really don't know what more we can do along those lines, notwithstanding the fact that your comment is a good one, and it's fair, and it definitely resonates with me.

I'm concerned about that. I would like to tell you that we're working on that. Where this ends up at this point in time today, I don't know, other than to make sure you understand that it's certainly duly noted.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I appreciate that. I think Canadians and everyone would like a bit more.