Evidence of meeting #45 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was change.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Brind’Amour  Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual
Andrea Skinner  Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Good morning, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 45 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I want to acknowledge that this meeting is being held on the traditional unceded lands of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people.

Pursuant to the motion adopted by this committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, the committee is meeting on the study of safe sport in Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House of Commons order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room, and remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For interpretation, those on Zoom have the choice at the bottom of their screen of either floor, English or French audio. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

In accordance with our routine motion, I am informing the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection test in advance of the meeting.

Before we begin, there are two items I wish to discuss with members of the committee.

Will the committee consent to Ms. Skinner and Mr. Brind'Amour being assisted by their respective counsel when they appear in relation to the study on safe sport in Canada?

Is the committee in agreement with this?

John Nater.

11 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Madam Chair, I just want to make the observation that the law firm is Hockey Canada's law firm, and Mr. Brind'Amour is appearing here as an individual. I want to be reassured that there will be no undue influence or intimidation with respect to Mr. Brind'Amour's testimony by a law firm that is engaged by Hockey Canada and not by him as an individual.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you, John, and I think that was very clear. I'm hoping that the counsel and Mr. Brind'Amour will be aware of the condition put by the committee that there be no undue influence by a law firm on Mr. Brind'Amour.

There are some documents that we have to deal with. There are minutes that were received from Hockey Canada yesterday evening, and because there were many pages, we were not able to get them translated in time, but they will be distributed to the committee members when the translation has occurred.

I'm afraid this is one of the problems we have to deal with when we get things only at the last minute. It's pretty difficult to get them translated, and the clerk cannot distribute documents to the committee unless they're in both official languages. Please remember this, or if you can, send them in both official languages. Thank you very much for that.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses, but before I do, I have to ask the witnesses to swear in.

I will begin with Mr. Michael Brind'Amour. Would you like a religious oath, or a solemn affirmation?

11:05 a.m.

Michael Brind’Amour Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Good morning, Madam Chair.

I prefer the solemn affirmation, please.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

All right. I will read the oath, and you will respond in solemn affirmation.

I, Michael Brind'Amour, do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm, and declare the taking of any oath is according to my religious belief unlawful. I do also solemnly, sincerely, and truly affirm, and declare that the evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

11:05 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

Madam chair, I solemnly swear that I will tell the truth.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

Ms. Skinner, would you like to make a solemn affirmation, or would you like to make a religious oath?

11:05 a.m.

Andrea Skinner Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada

Good morning.

I would like to make a solemn affirmation, please.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you. I will state your name.

I, Andrea Skinner, do solemnly, sincerely, and truly affirm and declare the taking of any oath is according to my religious belief unlawful. I do also solemnly, sincerely, and truly affirm and declare that the evidence I shall give on this examination shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

11:05 a.m.

Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada

Andrea Skinner

I so affirm and declare.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Ms. Skinner.

Now we will begin.

As individuals, you will each have five minutes. Then, at the end of your time, we will have a question and answer period with the committee. I would like to give you a 30-second notice when you do your five-minute round.

Mr. Michael Brind'Amour, you can begin, please, for five minutes.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee, members of the public and players.

I recognize that this committee, and indeed all Canadians, have serious questions about Hockey Canada's handling of a sexual assault allegation in 2018, as well as the organization's ongoing efforts to improve safety in and around the game.

I hope my testimony today will help provide additional answers on these questions.

As you know, I served as the chair of Hockey Canada's board of directors from November 2018 until I stepped down last August.

Like many Canadians, I have spent much of my life in and around the sport of field hockey. I have been a volunteer in the sport for over 30 years, with particular involvement with minor field hockey associations.

I am a father and grandfather with two grandsons who play minor field hockey. And like the members of this committee, I am committed to ensuring that all Canadians can safely enjoy our national sport.

During my tenure as Chair, we have worked hard to bring forward new ideas and perspectives, with a focus on inclusion, including the advancement of women's sport, and sports safety.

While I am proud of this work, I know there is still much to do for Hockey Canada, and much work that should have been done earlier.

That is why, two months ago, I made the decision to step down from my role at Hockey Canada, so that the new leadership could take the immediate steps necessary to address the significant challenges facing Hockey Canada and our sport as a whole.

At the same time, I recognize that this committee has questions about certain decisions that were made during my tenure as president, including those surrounding the 2018 sexual assault allegations involving Canada's National Junior Team.

I strongly believe that Hockey Canada took appropriate action by reporting this incident to the police, Sport Canada and launching an independent investigation. While I understand the frustration of Canadians with the suspension of the investigation in 2020, which has recently resumed, I want to reiterate that I was never made aware of the identity of the individuals involved.

I hope that the recent changes made by Hockey Canada, including the reopening of the investigation and the mandatory involvement of the players, will help provide the answers that so many Canadians are looking for.

I also want to talk about the Board's decision earlier this year to authorize a settlement with the young woman at the centre of these allegations. While this decision was widely criticized, the Board made this decision because it felt it would be inappropriate to victimize the young woman in court.

I would like to conclude by noting that under new leadership and with a comprehensive action plan in place, I believe Hockey Canada is making real progress in improving the Canadian game for all participants.

Thank you.

I look forward to your questions.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

I now go to Ms. Skinner for five minutes, please.

11:10 a.m.

Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada

Andrea Skinner

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Bonjour. I appreciate the opportunity to appear today.

Like many Canadians, sport has been very important to me throughout my life. Growing up, I was a competitive swimmer, and I played soccer and hockey at the elite level. I was captain of the Cornell University women’s hockey team and assistant coach for the University of Ottawa varsity women's team, and I have refereed at the highest levels in women’s hockey. I am a partner at a Toronto-based law firm, where I lead our firm’s mental health initiative and chair our diversity and inclusion program, which was recently internationally recognized.

Community service has always been a high priority for me. I have served as a mentor to girls’ minor hockey associations, founded and directed a running and reading program for disadvantaged children in Ottawa, and served as a board member of Hockey Helps the Homeless.

I ran for election to the board of Hockey Canada in November 2020. It was a way for me to give back to the sport. From the beginning, a primary objective of mine was to make the sport more accessible, safe, inclusive and welcoming to existing and new participants. Our board shares this perspective.

There has been a lot of talk about toxic culture in hockey and a culture of silence. These behaviours are contrary to the fundamental values of respect, safety, fair play and authenticity. They include bullying, disrespectful or demeaning language, harassment, sexism, racism and sexual abuse or assault. While hundreds of thousands of participants across the country have never experienced such unacceptable behaviour in hockey, unquestionably it does exist. Any instance of this behaviour in hockey should not be tolerated.

Regrettably, toxic behaviour exists throughout society. No segment of society is immune. Culpable behaviour such as sexual assault, whether in our educational systems, the business environment, the political sphere or our religious institutions, is evil and reprehensible. Suggesting that toxic behaviour is somehow a specific hockey problem or to scapegoat hockey as a centrepiece for toxic culture is, in my opinion, counterproductive to finding solutions. It risks overlooking the change that needs to be made more broadly to prevent and address toxic behaviour, particularly against women. When these issues arise, we must do our absolute best to deal with them in the most humane, sensitive and responsible way possible.

My perspective on the settlement of the lawsuit involving allegations of sexual assault in London in 2018 is that, as a board, we wanted to do what we viewed as being responsible and respectful, particularly regarding the wishes of the young woman involved. When the statement of claim was filed earlier this year, we handled it based on the information we had at the time and based on professional advice. Our instinct was one of compassion for the young woman and a sincere desire to respect her wishes and perspective. We were keenly aware of the alternative to settling, which was that legal proceedings in these types of situations can revictimize people in a very traumatic way. I personally did not want to see the young woman subjected to the cruelty and invasiveness of an adversarial court process involving cross-examination and harsh defence tactics.

Our board does not share the view that Hockey Canada should be making more leadership changes at this time. As a board, we continue to support the CEO and management. We believe it's in the best interest of Hockey Canada and all its participants that the organization’s leadership remain stable.

All nine positions on the board of directors are up for election later this year. We are in the midst of a governance review by a former Supreme Court of Canada justice, who is examining the structure and composition of the board and senior management. The board believes that Hockey Canada’s CEO and his executive team have the skills and ability to lead Hockey Canada, including through the execution of our action plan, on which we've already made good progress, and the other items in our strategic plan.

Like any group in our society, Hockey Canada has much to do to make hockey better, to do all it can to eliminate toxic behaviour, and to make our game more inclusive and mindful of the importance of diversity, respect and opportunity for all. We are actively promoting and accelerating positive change in the culture of hockey. We have and are continuing to establish additional safeguards and better reporting and handling of maltreatment complaints.

Across the country, our leaders at the provincial, regional and territorial levels are actively participating in efforts to track incidents of maltreatment and in reviewing and enhancing the education and training of players, coaches, officials, parents and volunteers to help address these issues. All of us involved in hockey play a part in eradicating unacceptable behaviour from the game. All of us must be empowered and encouraged to speak up and call out bad behaviour whenever and wherever it occurs.

Thank you again for inviting me here today. I look forward to responding to your questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Ms. Skinner.

Now we go to the question and answer segment. This is going to be a six-minute round. I will begin with John Nater for the Conservatives.

John, you have six minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for joining us this morning.

I want to begin with a brief comment.

When Hockey Canada appeared before us in July, I left that meeting with a small glimmer of hope that perhaps Hockey Canada had got the message—that we would see meaningful change. Then, within weeks of that meeting, we saw Hockey Canada go out and hire Navigator, a crisis communications firm. We saw this asinine survey sent out that diminished the culpability of Hockey Canada.

We hear today that there's a need for “stable” leadership within Hockey Canada.

What really got me was that one week after that meeting, Hockey Canada's board met, and this is what was included in the minutes. The minutes said that it was encouraged to get the message into the public, get ahead of the communication and shift the narrative. They went on to say that the national equity fund is in place to protect children in hockey programs and to take care of any victims; that settlement payments must be viewed in a positive manner, not a negative manner; and that repetition was required to state the narrative.

Madam Chair, I find it deeply troubling that the organization is more concerned about shifting the narrative than actually meaningfully implementing change within this organization. I offer that as a comment at the outset.

My first question is for Mr. Brind'Amour.

We understand that on Saturday, May 7, 2022, the Hockey Canada board met in camera for two hours and three minutes to discuss the settlement of the London incident. I would like to know what information was provided to the board by Mr. Smith to make that settlement, and exactly what the board approved. What was the approval that was given by the board to the leadership of Hockey Canada?

11:15 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

Thank you for the question.

I believe you mean May 19, the date when the board of directors agreed to a settlement.

The board of directors convened on May 19. At that time, our leadership team provided us with the necessary information as well as information from our legal team.

According to our legal experts, there were two options: go forward and start litigation or come to a settlement.

Following discussions, the board of directors authorized an out-of-court settlement between the parties involved, if possible. The case moved ahead and became what the public knows today.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

Thank you for that.

Over the summer, shortly before your resignation as board chair, it was speculated in the media that you had either formally or informally encouraged the board of directors to terminate the contract of Mr. Scott Smith as CEO.

Can you confirm or deny that you did in fact encourage Mr. Smith to either resign or be terminated?

11:20 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

Thank you for the question, sir.

For the board of directors, given the state of the situation, discussing our chief executive officer’s position and deciding on the matter was considered quite responsible. That is what was done. Following that, the board of directors gave Mr. Smith its full confidence. There was no motion or a vote. It was just a discussion, which was completely normal.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

My question, then, is whether you personally have faith in Mr. Scott Smith to lead this organization.

11:20 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

Mr. Smith is very capable and talented. To answer the question, I would say that it will be up to the current board of directors to decide his fate.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

With respect, you didn't answer the question. Do you personally have faith in Mr. Scott Smith to be the CEO of this organization?

11:20 a.m.

Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual

Michael Brind’Amour

My personal beliefs have no impact on the situation. I think the board of directors has all the tools in hand to be able to appropriately assess the situation.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

I think that answer is telling.

Ms. Skinner, who approved hiring Navigator, and how much was allocated in expenses for Navigator?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada

Andrea Skinner

Madam Chair, I'm not certain what the answer is to that question. Operations would know if there was an amount specifically allocated to Navigator.

I can say, though, that we have heard that there is a call for a new perspective. Hockey Canada has secured outside perspectives, and Navigator is one of those perspectives. We're taking steps to change how we communicate.