Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I find it ironic that you are saying the media misreported the situation. Essentially, that’s the same kind of formula used in the survey you commissioned, possibly to try and influence public opinion. You won that round, but there are still unanswered questions.

I also know that you hired Justice Cromwell, at great expense, to ask him to produce a report on the recommendations.

Before making a decision and renewing your trust, do you expect to shed light on what was done?

Do Mr. Scott Smith and members of the board of directors have your full trust to fully implement the action plan?

Coincidentally, I received a sponsored item from Facebook, saying that Hockey Canada suggests we look at the positive steps it is taking to change things.

[Andrea Skinner]

Thank you, Madam Chair. There was a lot packed in there. I'll respond to the question about support for senior leadership.

Our board, frankly, does not share the view that senior leadership should be replaced on the basis of what we consider to be substantial misinformation and unduly cynical attacks. I appreciate that others disagree with us, but our positions are based on the information that we have and an understanding that Hockey Canada has an excellent reputation.

I do not fault senior management or the board with respect to the way the 2018 sexual assault incident was handled. I believe the appropriate steps were taken in terms of contacting the police, retaining an independent law firm to investigate the allegations and contacting Sport Canada.

I understand there's criticism with respect to senior management having in place the national equity fund—I'm a parent of two young kids—but I believe it's a responsible risk management practice.

Those appear to be two fundamental allegations from critics who are calling for leadership change. In the board's view, we need stability at this time. We have nine members of the board up for re-election or election later this year. We're waiting on the results of a Supreme Court of Canada governance review, which, while it may be expensive, is one of the most important things Hockey Canada has done in its 100-year history.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Skinner, our criticism of Hockey Canada, and the reason why the Canadian public and parliamentarians do not trust Hockey Canada is precisely because of the lack of transparency and culture of silence. If we don’t understand the situation, it is not necessarily our fault. Perhaps you are lacking transparency. This culture of silence resulted in possibly putting a hockey player above the law.

Ms. Skinner, you were the chair of the risk management committee. You had the opportunity to look into different sources of funds to settle a lawsuit. What we understand is that there is a fund within a fund.

Was Hockey Canada always responsible for paying the entire sum awarded to the victim?

[Andrea Skinner]

I'm not sure I understand that question. On the issue of transparency, I can say that since I stepped into this role, I agree that we need to be more transparent, and that we need to better communicate the things we've done and the things we need to be doing. That's partly why I stepped into this role. That's why I've been attending town halls across the country, speaking with stakeholders, trying to understand what's important and getting our message out there, so that we can be more transparent. That is my goal too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

The time is up, Mr. Lemire. I will go to Peter Julian for the NDP.

Peter, you have six minutes, please, with the Nater formula.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses for being here today.

There is no doubt that hockey parents across the country want answers from Hockey Canada. They scrimp and save to register their kids in Hockey Canada programs. The revelations—not only the allegations of sexual violence and sexual abuse and how they are handled within Hockey Canada, but also the complete lack of financial transparency—are profoundly disturbing to Canadian hockey parents and profoundly disturbing to the Canadian public. That's why Hockey Canada has lost the trust of Canadians. That's why this committee has said in a very clear way that it has lost confidence in the leadership of Hockey Canada.

The way to respond to that isn't by pushing back and saying that these are attacks on Hockey Canada. The way to respond is by providing answers to what the Canadian public are asking, and I would like to see, over the course of this hearing, some answers.

I'll start with you, Madam Skinner.

You just said that the participants legacy trust fund is “not an asset of Hockey Canada”, yet we know it was set up by funds that were transferred from the national equity fund. We also know that it was Hockey Canada that went to court to alter the terms of the trust and to renew it until 2039.

Ms. Skinner, how can you say that it's not an asset when the funds came from Hockey Canada and when it was Hockey Canada that was actually going to court to extend the mandate of that trust?

[Andrea Skinner]

Thank you for the question. I appreciate the chance to clarify this issue.

The trust arises from contributions made by Hockey Canada's members: BC Hockey, Hockey Alberta and Hockey Saskatchewan. All of the members contributed to the trust. Hockey Canada is a trustee of the trust. The trust belongs to the original contributors of that trust for that self-insured period I mentioned, from 1986 to 1995. Over the years, this trust has provided annual funding to the members and the CHL by way of realized annual investment income. That income is then distributed to the members in the CHL, not Hockey Canada.

This money is not Hockey Canada's; it's not Hockey Canada's asset.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Again, I find the answer is not transparent.

The reality is that Hockey Canada does control the trust. The monies went from the national equity fund to the participants legacy trust fund. Can you confirm how much was transferred from the national equity fund to the participants legacy trust fund?

[Andrea Skinner]

I'm sorry sir, but with the greatest of respect, I don't agree with that characterization of the trust. I'm being as transparent as possible. Unfortunately, it's not resonating.

The trust does not belong to Hockey Canada. It exists for the benefit of its members.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

How much was transferred from the national equity fund?

[Andrea Skinner]

I believe it was $7.1 million in 1999.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'll move on to board meetings.

I wrote to Scott Smith in August because of information that we obtained through a former board member who is a whistle-blower. It was around the cost of board dinners for Hockey Canada.

Is it true that many board dinners have cost more than $5,000? Is that something you can confirm? Mr. Smith refused to respond to that question.

[Andrea Skinner]

Madam Chair, through you, I have not experienced that. I can only speak to since I've been on the board since November 2020. Again, I view that as a changed board. I've only attended two meetings in person. I've spent hundreds of hours on Hockey Canada board matters. I've only attended two meetings in person and one dinner. It was a one- or two-plate meal. We have a code of conduct that's in place.

As I said, I've spent hundreds of hours as a volunteer, trying to improve the game of hockey.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

I don't have a lot of time, so I'll move on to the next question. It's on championship rings. Can you confirm the cost of those rings to members of the board of over $3,000 each?

[Andrea Skinner]

I have no knowledge of that, sir.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Brind’Amour, can you answer the same questions?

Have you ever attended a dinner for members of the board of directors that cost over $5000?

Can you confirm the cost of the rings provided to members of the board of directors?

[Michael Brind’Amour]

Thank you for the question.

The type of dinners you’re referring to were held during special events, intended for a broader public than members of the board of directors. I do not recall the occasion, but if it happened, it was because there was a special moment to honour.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

What about the rings?

[Michael Brind’Amour]

I think your information is just about the rings. That happens when our national teams are fortunate enough to win a world championship. It happens for rare occasions like that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

At $3000 per ring, multiplied by the number of members of the board of directors, that’s expensive.

[Michael Brind’Amour]

No...

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Your time is up. Thank you.

Now I will move to the second round, which is a five-minute round. I begin with Kevin Waugh for the Conservatives.

Kevin, you have five minutes, please.

There's no Nater formula attachment here.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Brind'Amour, we're disappointed in your leadership of Hockey Canada. You came on in November 2018. You were re-elected board chair in November 2020. Then, when it got a little hot, you decided to leave on August 5. You're part of the problem as much as Tom Renney and Scott Smith.

Your leadership at the board table is in dire straits right now. We're desperately waiting for Thomas Cromwell's report. I feel the board has not done its due diligence from day one, and you're part of the problem.

When you went into your final board meeting in August and decided to pull the pin, was it because the board of eight members surrounding you had no confidence in you?

Would you please respond to that?

[Michael Brind’Amour]

I thank the member for the question.

To answer your question, I don’t believe so, no.