Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Who approved hiring Navigator? Was it the board or was it the management?

[Andrea Skinner]

I believe that was a decision of operations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nater. You've gone a little over. You're setting the standard for the Nater formula again.

I now go to the Liberals.

Mr. Housefather, you have six minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

This is a follow-up to Mr. Nater's question.

Mr. Brind’Amour, during the meeting when the board of directors discussed the issue of Mr. Smith, did your opinion differ from that of other board members?

[Michael Brind’Amour]

I thank the honourable member for the question.

The directors held a discussion and each one was able to express their opinion.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Brind’Amour, did you have a dissenting opinion during that conversation, yes or no?

[Michael Brind’Amour]

The board of directors came to a consensus and approved giving Hockey Canada the mandate…

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Brind’Amour.

Ms. Skinner, I want to come to you now. Tone at the top is really important, and you're the new tone at the top. One thing about tone at the top is that it's important not to be tone deaf.

Our women's national hockey team made a statement on July 26, 2022, about the administration of Hockey Canada, that was quite scathing. Then the world championship happened and the women's team honoured our country by winning the gold medal. Who was presenting the gold medal? It was Scott Smith.

Ms. Skinner, did the women's hockey team request that Mr. Smith present them with the gold medal?

[Andrea Skinner]

I don't believe that was the women's hockey team's request. I believe it was a request from a woman who is a staff leader of the women's hockey program.

Ordinarily, if a volunteer director of the board was in attendance for that event, they would have been presenting the medals. Unfortunately, it wasn't possible for a volunteer director of the board to be there, so Mr. Smith did that in our place.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

It wasn't possible for any of the nine members of the board to be there at the women's world hockey championship. We'll check into whether anybody was there.

Thank you.

I want to come to the participants legacy trust fund, which we found out about yesterday in an article in The Globe and Mail. It deals with personal injury claims triggered by actions between 1986 and 1995.

Why did Hockey Canada not tell us about this fund when it appeared before the committee on the two previous occasions, Ms. Skinner?

[Andrea Skinner]

The participants legacy trust fund is not a Hockey Canada asset. That is why it wasn't mentioned. It doesn't show up on Hockey Canada's financials. It's not an asset of Hockey Canada.

To be clear, I think that fund has been fundamentally misdescribed in the media. That's very unfortunate. No funds from that trust have been used to settle claims.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay. I'm going to get into that in a second. Before I do, can you tell me now if there are any other funds—other than the ones we now know about and that have now been disclosed—that are used to settle claims at Hockey Canada or for any member of Hockey Canada?

[Andrea Skinner]

I can tell you the answer to that question from my perspective, based on my knowledge.

There are four main elements to Hockey Canada's financials. We have an operating fund, a health benefits trust fund and the national equity fund, which people have heard a lot about. We have a series of pillars, which include a growth fund, a facilities fund, a branch support fund, an insurance rate stabilization fund, an international event hosting fund and a technology fund. Those funds all have prescribed purposes or objectives, and—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Is the answer then no, you don't have another fund?

[Andrea Skinner]

I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Is the answer no, you do not have another fund that you use to fund these types of claims related to sexual liability or sexual assault?

[Andrea Skinner]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the question, but I don't believe there is.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay.

Now I'm going to turn my attention to three things in the August 2 minutes that I think are interesting.

First, it said there was discussion about false information being circulated in and by the press, and that discussion on communications strategy ensued.

Second, it said Hockey Canada was a family and needed to push back hard, that it needed to start defending and stop sitting in the neutral zone.

Basically, Hockey Canada is taking a Trump-like view and saying that the press is responsible for its woes. Yesterday you guys issued a statement, which I want to come to. It says, “It is inaccurate to report that the participants legacy trust fund was used to settle sexual assault claims and any suggestion otherwise is false.”

It sounds like it's horrible that anyone could have thought that. In that case, why, in 2019, in the affidavit that was filed by Brian Cairo, your employee, did it say in paragraph 5 that the trust was established to fund claims made against the Canadian Hockey Association “for matters including but not limited to sexual abuse”?

Is sexual abuse not sexual assault, Ms. Skinner?

[Andrea Skinner]

Sexual abuse and sexual assault for me are essentially the same thing, but could you repeat the question?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

In paragraph 5 of Brian Cairo's affidavit, when he tried to prolong the trust—when Hockey Canada was successful in prolonging the trust—he stated that the trust was established to fund claims made against the Canadian Hockey Association “for matters including but not limited to sexual abuse”.

It would seem to me, then, that sexual abuse and sexual assault were potential claims that could be settled under this fund, but yesterday's statement made it seem like they couldn't be.

I also want to point out Mr. Cairo's affidavit. Paragraph 8 says, “There are currently unpaid claims.” In your statement, and in the statement yesterday, it says, “This trust has never been used for any purpose.” How could there have been unpaid claims in 2019 if the trust has never been used for any purpose?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 13 seconds left.

[Andrea Skinner]

I have to apologize, because I don't have Mr. Cairo's affidavit in front of me, but what I can tell you is that it's inaccurate to say that the participants legacy trust fund was used to settle sexual assault claims. That trust was established to cover uninsured claims for a period in which Hockey Canada and its members were self-insured, between September 1986 and August 1995.

As we know, it can take a very long time for complainants in sexual assault cases to come forward, so when the trust was extended in 2020, it was extended for the benefits of the members who had contributed to that. Hockey Canada, as I said, is not receiving money under that trust.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Skinner. I think we've ended this round.

Now I'm going to go to Mr. Lemire from the Bloc Québécois for six minutes, please.

Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Skinner, members of Hockey Canada’s executive leadership appeared before this committee twice, not just once. The first time, I got the impression they did not understand the reasons why they were here, nor the outrage expressed by parliamentarians and the public regarding the alleged scandal that occurred in London in June 2018.

Due to pressure from the public and sponsors, as well as the minister’s decision to cut funding, people at Hockey Canada finally became aware of the problem. They sent a letter to the media.

Mr. Brind’Amour, Ms. Skinner, I imagine you contributed to that initiative.

This letter stated that the message had been understood and that changes would be made to the organization’s culture. However, we see that its culture has not changed. These people appeared again before the committee and confirmed that they had the situation in hand. However, we found out yesterday about the existence of a secret fund, by which we were able to conclude that the culture of silence and cover-ups wasn’t changing.

My question is very simple. Who is responsible for the situation at Hockey Canada?

I think senior management no longer deserves the trust of people who participate in Hockey Canada, whether it be our youth, women who have been the victims of wrongdoing, or anyone else. A profound cultural change needs to happen at Hockey Canada.

Who is accountable, right now? Is it the board of directors or senior management?

[Andrea Skinner]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, the board of directors has oversight for the organization, and that includes senior management. As I explained in my answer to Mr. Housefather, I believe the reports that have circulated in the media do not accurately reflect the situation with respect to the participants legacy trust fund.

Change is happening. I can assure this committee and I can assure the members of the Canadian public that change is happening.

I came to this board through an independent nominating process in November 2020 to help make this sport better. I took on this role as the interim chair less than two months ago. Change is in progress, and we've heard the members of the Canadian public who are asking for change more quickly.