Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

To come back—and these are just my personal thoughts—you're saying the board acted coherently and competently when it decided to settle the 2018 claim. I find that odd.

Number one, again, it was not minuted.

Number two, the whole discussion about settling a claim revolves around the legal risk of Hockey Canada. You have to understand the legal risk of Hockey Canada, your affiliates and the players in order to understand whether or not you settle a case, yet we were told by Hockey Canada at repeated hearings that they didn't know any of the individuals involved and they didn't know whether the underlying facts were true. To me, that means you would settle every single case, if the position is you settle the cases because you want to protect the plaintiff, whether you have investigated or not.

Finally, it seems that you didn't even have the actual agreement in front of you when you were authorizing it.

In any case, I find it odd. I wanted to explain to you why I was so categorical in my previous round of questions.

I want to move to another issue. You've talked about moving forward. You've talked about the oversight committee—

[Andrea Skinner]

I'm happy to respond that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Ms. Skinner. You were not asked to respond.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

You've talked about how the oversight committee of experts tasked with monitoring and providing guidance on Hockey Canada's plan to eliminate toxic behaviour in the sport is really important. The implementation oversight committee has been discussed a number of times by the board.

Three-time Olympic gold medallist Marnie McBean alleged in August that she was asked by Navigator to sit on this committee.

Was she asked to sit on this committee, Ms. Skinner?

[Andrea Skinner]

According to the media reports, she was.

The board delegated the recruitment of the panel to a third party, so I can't say exactly what discussions went on there, but I read the article as well.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

She alleged, as you know, that it was rescinded because she made it clear that top Hockey Canada officials needed to be removed, and that condition was not met.

Then I go to the September 15 minutes, which say that on the special committee on action plan implementation, Navigator consulted with a number of individuals. However, for a variety of reasons provided, they did not have success confirming three qualified independent individuals to agree to be on the special committee on action plan implementation at this time, despite the fact that the action plan indicated a September 15 date for the appointment of the special committee.

What were the variety of reasons provided for none of these people agreeing to sit on the oversight committee?

[Andrea Skinner]

Madam Chair, there were a number of reasons, and I'm afraid I'm not going to recollect all of them at the moment. I think some individuals were too busy, didn't have the time to devote to it, or were unable to come in with a purely independent slate, if I could put it that way. There were a number of reasons.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That's an interesting perspective. None of the reasons that you offered relates to any demands by these people of additional steps Hockey Canada needed to take before they would agree to serve.

Was that ever brought up as one of the reasons that people declined?

[Andrea Skinner]

It may have been. If it was.... This oversight committee has a particular mandate. Again, I would encourage anyone who wants to make a difference in hockey to come forward in the way they think makes sense for them.

I think that for some of the people who were approached for this oversight committee, that's not the way that made sense for them, so we continue to work to find an independent oversight committee with respect to our action plan. In the meantime, it's moving forward and we're making good progress on it.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That's good to know, although the September 15 date is missed.

Let me ask one more question, coming back to something Mr. Nater asked.

You suggested information be provided to this committee. Let me ask the question in a different way, because we can go to the members, ask them for that information and summon it.

Do you know how many claims were made to members of Hockey Canada related to allegations of sexual assault or sexual abuse between 2000 and today?

[Andrea Skinner]

I don't believe I do. If I heard it once, I don't have it at my fingertips. I'm sorry, sir. I don't know.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Would Hockey Canada not, as an organization that is convening and actually manages its trustee of the other fund, ask the organizations to report to you? Is there a process at Hockey Canada to require member organizations to report these types of claims to Hockey Canada, like there is today at Sport Canada for Hockey Canada?

[Andrea Skinner]

I can't speak to what happened historically, but as I mentioned, we just approved a process that will require that.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, ma'am.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

Now, I would like to tell the committee that we have the ability to go a little past one. We can go to a final round, and it's going to be a shortened round. It's going to be the Conservatives for five, the Liberals for five, and the NDP and the Bloc for two and a half minutes each. That gives us a 15-minute round.

Beginning with the fourth round, we will go to the Conservatives. I think Mrs. Thomas and Mr. Waugh are sharing the time.

Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Skinner, you commented that “confidential” spaces were being created, so that players would be able to come forward with complaints—or perhaps it's even others who would be able to come forward with complaints or concerns—and an investigation would be done.

What I'm being led to believe is that this process would be done internally and there would not be an external organization or external accountability. This concerns me, because it speaks of greater secrecy.

Do you care to clarify?

[Andrea Skinner]

Absolutely.

The independent third party is an independent third party. It's not internal. It's been completely outsourced, so it takes it out of Hockey Canada's hands completely.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Have at it.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay.

Ms. Skinner, your term expires in four weeks. Will you come back onto the board, and will you lead this organization?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Can you please answer the question?

[Andrea Skinner]

Yes. I apologize. I was looking for the unmute button again.

I would tell you, sir, that I'm focused on carrying out the balance of my term. As long as I feel like I can be a positive voice for hockey and for change, I'm here.

I don't know what my future plans are. I can tell you I joined the board to be part of meaningful and positive change and growth in hockey. I didn't expect to be involved in politics. In some ways, this is a bit of a defining moment for me. I didn't expect to be a lightning rod for extremists or receive threatening and hostile emails. I came here to be positive. I'm spending time away from my kids and my family and my job.

The short answer is I don't know.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

You're four weeks away from that, and there are eight other board members.... Have you talked to your board about who's coming back and who's not?

You mentioned earlier that you feel now is not the time for a complete whitewash of the board, or even those who are in charge, like Scott Smith, so you must have thought about this. We're four weeks away from having a new board with Hockey Canada, and you're leading it. You must have thought about this. Yes or no, are you coming back in four weeks?

[Andrea Skinner]

There is a call for nominations out right now, sir, and the deadline for members of the public, including members of the current board, to indicate whether they want to be part of the next board is October 28, I believe. That information's been posted on Hockey Canada's website.

I'm taking this day by day right now, trying to do the best I can every day. I don't know what every other board member's plans are. I know some board members are termed out and are unable to run again.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay. Have you talked to Justice Thomas Cromwell? He's doing the governance structure. Have you had a conversation with him?

[Andrea Skinner]

I have. Mr. Cromwell reached out to me, as I think he reached out to 50 or so other people, including board members, to have a discussion, yes.