Evidence of meeting #65 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmac.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for staying.
We've had a lot of discussion about the incident that happened last summer and the contract. However, I'm more concerned even more broadly.
Were you aware that Laith Marouf's company, CMAC, has been awarded multiple contracts since 2015, more than half a million dollars' worth?
Noon
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, I wonder if the member is referring to the CRTC cost awards.
Noon
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
He received money from the broadcasting participation fund. He received money, as well, from Minister Miller even though he had made vile comments about indigenous people. It appears to me that, across all departments, whatever we were doing certainly was not preventing the behaviour. It's not like Mr. Marouf woke up last summer and began tweeting vile and offensive things. This is a pattern of behaviour that.... We can see that he was barred from re-entering Canada in 2009. He has a long history. The fact that he's been awarded all these contracts since 2015 really surprises me.
What instructions is the communications department given when it looks into who's applying for the grants?
Noon
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
The analysis of the applications is done by program advisers who work for the anti-racism action program. I'm talking about the contract that was awarded to Mr. Marouf. In the previous process that we had, we did a risk-based assessment that looked at financials and looked at whether the applicant was a first-time applicant. There are a series of questions and points of inquiry that are made. That has been improved upon as a result.
Noon
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
That's fine.
Is there a review done after the project is complete to assess whether or not the money was well spent, for example, or whether there were any issues such as these?
Noon
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Yes. There are mid-term requirements for mid-term reports before additional funds are awarded. That's a very common feature in contribution agreements.
Noon
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
There was some discussion, I think, about the definitions to use. My understanding is that the IHRA definition is not controversial. Is that your assessment as well?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
The definition for anti-Semitism that is part of Canada's anti-racism strategy is the one that has been given by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
In terms of other departments that have awarded money to CMAC, are you aware of what their practices are? Is it a standard set of selection criteria that all departments use, or does each one have their own?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Broadly speaking, there is similarity in terms of the kinds of questions and the kinds of analysis done. There is information sharing between departments in terms of best practices. When this case came to light, we did share the work that we were doing with other departments. We actually borrowed some of the best practices that we had learned as well, to add to the attestation that we now have. There is a forum for sharing information in order to determine best practices for the awarding of grants and contributions.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
You said there was a look back at all the contracts that had been awarded.
Has that been completed?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
There has been a review completed over the last few months of all active agreements that are under the anti-racism action program and the multiculturalism program that we have. That review has been completed by officials. Money is now moving to community groups in batches. We are moving that through as quickly as we can.
We are in discussions now to just get the final review completed.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Ms. Gladu.
I will go to the Liberals and to Anthony Housefather.
You have five minutes, please, Anthony.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you to both of you for being willing to stay for another round. It's appreciated.
I have a couple of questions just to tidy up some stuff that happened before.
A number of references have come up with regard to “the minister”. Minister Rodriguez' name was mentioned previously in one round of questioning by Ms. Thomas. You have been referring to Minister Hussen in all your references to “the minister”. Is that right?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
The minister responsible for these two programs that I am referring to is Minister Hussen.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
When you were saying that there was an agreement with the minister to suspend the agreement on August 19, that minister was Minister Hussen, not Minister Rodriguez.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
In these types of situations, the department acts as a silo in the sense that you're reporting to Minister Hussen. You're not alerting Minister Rodriguez or involving Minister Rodriguez in any of the discussions or decisions related to this contract. Is that correct?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
We work as a department, but in this case we were working with Minister Hussen.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you.
Let me come to another question. When you talked about the training, you mentioned that UNESCO had done the training. I find that hard to believe. Are you sure you didn't mean the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal or a Canadian group?
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
We worked with the special envoy for Holocaust remembrance—
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
—who is Professor Cotler, but we had been working with UNESCO. They had training that they had been developing, and this was an opportunity to be able to try that training. We had lots of discussions with them.
We have since had conversations with Friends of Simon Wiesenthal and other groups.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
It was the Jewish public servants' alliance, as I understand it.