Canadian Heritage Committee on April 28th, 2026

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to begin by thanking every witness for appearing today.

I'll focus my comments on Ms. Dickenson.

You wrote to me last July, and I had the opportunity to meet with CPAC last fall. I was truly thankful for that. I want to say how much I truly value CPAC's service to all Canadians. It is, as you quoted from someone who had written to you, an “indispensable service” to Canadians and journalists across our country. CPAC gives Canadians a direct window into Parliament, into our committees, into public affairs and democratic debate in English and French, often with aging equipment that is nearly impossible to replace, which you can sometimes find on eBay, and it does that on a shoestring budget that last year was $15 million.

I also want to acknowledge the people behind that work, the journalists, producers, camera crews, editors, technicians and staff who make it all possible. I was deeply saddened to hear the news last week about the layoffs. In a small organization, I know it is felt deeply.

When CPAC has to reduce its workforce, in practical terms, what does that mean for the service Canadians receive?

[Christa Dickenson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Royer, for the supportive comments. They're greatly appreciated at this time or at any time, and thank you for the question as well.

You asked what it means for the service.

In order to make these decisions on where to cut, we've had to become selective in areas in which it's difficult to do. It was an informed decision. We looked at who our audience is, and we looked at the top content that's being viewed. We went back to our mission, which is one of public service. CPAC in no way, shape or form is meant to be competitive.

If there was an area of duplication, that's where we opted to trim. It was not trimming fat; it was trimming very good content. Individuals have had stellar careers and were unbelievably hard-working and dedicated, and it was in no way, shape or form a reflection of their talent or their abilities or the programming we were offering. In a time when belts need to be tightened and subscriber erosion has reached absolutely new heights, we were operating with the budgets that we had in 2006. Imagine your own salaries or the budgets you're working with being frozen for 20 years. That is CPAC's reality.

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Let me ask you this: Imagine you're sitting in my seat and you're a policy-maker. What are some of the changes you would implement, and how would you prioritize them? Are there international best practices that you might look to in that process?

[Christa Dickenson]

It's hard to use the word “prioritize”. What I would look at is the time and place.

We are seeing journalism made fragile. We've heard about radio stations being shuttered. We know of other organizations, peers that have shuttered their foreign bureaus. There comes a point at which we need to say that journalism and maintaining Canadian democracy matters above all else at this time and place, because we are living through an unbelievable amount of warfare. It's not only physical warfare but cyberwarfare. The antidote to that misinformation is information in its entirety, so making sure that we're investing in journalism in a holistic way is incredibly important.

Above and beyond that, if you start putting layers versus priorities, public service media organizations such as APTN, Accessible Media and CPAC are looking at niche audiences, niche topics and journalism all at the same time. That would be my answer.

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I don't know if you've seen this, but Agence France-Presse reported that the Australian government introduced a bill to implement harsher penalties for digital giants like Meta, Google and TikTok, which are a haven of fake news and disinformation, and which young people are increasingly turning to for information.

Mainstream Australian media outlets, like their Canadian counterparts, are struggling. Australia decided to step up and take action, unlike other governments that we don't need to name here. Once again, the digital giants will be required to enter into agreements with media outlets so that news content can again be available on their platforms, otherwise they would face fairly significant fines. That could go as far as having to pay the equivalent of 2.25% of their revenue in Australia, which would then be paid to news organizations and media outlets.

What are your thoughts on that, Mr. Desjardins?

I'd like to ask everyone this question, because I think everyone would like to share their opinion on this, but I only have two and a half minutes.

Mr. Desjardins, are you jealous to see Australia take such measures?

[Kevin Desjardins]

We just saw that this morning.

In fact, they are following the same principle we are. When a company is active in a market and earns revenue in that market, it should give back a little of that revenue to support the media outlets that are affected by its activities.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Aside from financial compensation, although that's another matter on which I completely agree, do you think platforms should be required to put news content back online in order to counter this issue of disinformation, or should we at least draw inspiration from that practice here?

[Kevin Desjardins]

I sometimes hear people say that it's because of the government that news isn't on Meta's platforms. However, it's absolutely because of Meta. I think, as a citizen, that Meta should—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

It should take responsibility.

[Kevin Desjardins]

Yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Ms. Dickenson, do you have an opinion on that?

[Christa Dickenson]

It's important for Canadian broadcasters to have a presence on digital platforms. That could look like a Canadian environment where news could be available. We also need to have the ability, at the right time, to change discoverability. These companies have the means, for sure. The media industry is in crisis. When the time comes, we have to be able to change what is considered a priority in broadcasting.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

There should be a place for CPAC on those platforms as well.

[Christa Dickenson]

That's right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Dickenson, what is CPAC's annual budget?

[Christa Dickenson]

It's more or less $15 million, but it's going down. Right now, we're bringing in barely $13 million from our wholesale rate.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

That money comes primarily from cable companies, if I understand correctly.

[Christa Dickenson]

Yes, as well as from satellite service providers.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Earlier, you said that you've had the same budget since 2006. Is that correct, or is it 2016?

[Christa Dickenson]

It has shrunk, so it is now back to what it was in 2006, because of the loss of subscribers.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Okay.

So, what's the solution? You met with the members of the Board of Internal Economy the other day. Did you submit a formal request for a specific amount?

[Christa Dickenson]

For years, we've been requesting ad hoc funding in two ways.

We expect to see a more permanent and long‑term solution within the next few years. This solution is the services of exceptional importance fund, which should come about as a result of Bill C‑11 and the Canadian Radio‑television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC.

In the meantime, after our cuts in 2024 and 2026, which led to a 25% reduction in our workforce in less than two years, we're asking for two solutions.

The first solution is to rebuild our infrastructure. We haven't had a chance to do this, given the administrative renewal imposed on us by the CRTC over the past three years. So we've asked for $8 million as soon as possible to finish rebuilding our infrastructure. Ms. Royer gave examples showing that we have equipment, such as sound equipment, that simply doesn't work anymore.

On top of that—