Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 1st, 2025

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you for that.

To sum up, with the Online Streaming Act, could you very concisely give us your pitch? How will it strengthen Canada's cultural sovereignty in this digital era?

[Scott Shortliffe]

I think it is what Parliament gave us and asked us to do. What it will do is make sure that Canadians continue to have choices. Our understanding of the act is that it's not forcing Canadians to take any of those choices, but making sure they are there.

In response to one of the questions from one of your colleagues earlier, we talked a bit about the ecosystem and how it has developed to fund both music and television content in Canada, but it has been under stress as revenues have declined. We are trying to find a sustainable path forward so that Canadians will be able to continue to listen to the music they want, have Canadian choices in it, have it in both official languages and have choices on their television screens, and in all of those, have choices that reflect their local experiences and local news.

That, to us, will be the definition of success, and that is the path we are on to try to implement it.

[Zoe Royer, Liberal, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much. That is time.

We are headed into the final round. We will have one period of questions from the Conservatives, another from the Liberals, and then the Bloc Québécois. Then we'll be bringing this meeting to a close.

With that, I will be the Conservative member asking questions during this round.

On the note of choice, you said that you want to be able to explain to your family what Bill C-11 does. You said it's about creating choice. How has Bill C-11 provided greater choice within the sphere of the Internet for Canadians?

[Scott Shortliffe]

Our interpretation of the bill is that we weren't asked to regulate the entire Internet as it stands. In fact, the bill was very careful to say in the policy direction that we should not be regulating the programming of social media creators. I would step back and say we weren't given the task of making sure the Internet as a whole will be better. We were asked to look at where there is broadcasting, including by streamers, and to make sure there are Canadian choices available, or support for the Canadian system on that, and it's a work in progress. We have our base contribution decision, which we think will help with local news, with French content, with indigenous content, with content for racialized Canadians. That is an important start.

In terms of the other things we want to achieve, it is still a work in progress, but we're very pleased that we've had robust public consultations and are now at the point where, shortly, we'll be able to come out with concrete decisions that will allow us to return and answer your question more fulsomely.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Isn't it true, though, that there really is more choice than ever before in the online sphere, in particular with streamers—Spotify, Apple Music, etc.? It's why people, as Ms. Eatrides rightly pointed out, are switching more and more from cable television and what we would call traditional broadcast systems to streamers. It's because they're drawn to choice, and that choice is made available to them often at a fragment of the cost.

[Scott Shortliffe]

There's enormous choice available on streaming services, and this is very much something we want to support. Part of choice, though, is that if you're Canadian, you can find Canadian content. That is an element of choice.

I think what we're talking about here is expanding choice, certainly not trying to limit choice.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Your definition, then, of expanded choice is defining what that choice should be for Canadians. Is that true choice?

[Scott Shortliffe]

That's not what we're saying at all. We're not trying to define at all what Canadians should choose to watch. We're saying that if they choose to watch Canadian content, if they want to seek out local news and expression, if they want to listen to Canadian music, there should be a way that is available to them and discoverable. We're not dictating to any Canadian what they should choose to watch or listen to. That will be up to them as individuals.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It's deemed that this is necessary because there is somehow a lack of options available to Canadians currently.

[Scott Shortliffe]

I think what we're saying is that the bill that Parliament passed and gave to us said that we should find an equitable way, not necessarily an equal way, to have both streamers and traditional broadcasters support the creation of Canadian content in the system. That is what we're implementing, following the will of Parliament.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Essentially, streamers are incredibly successful, because they actually do provide great choice at a price point that is realistic to consumers. Because they are so successful, the CRTC must take a portion of that revenue and pass it off to traditional media outlets in order help them, because they're struggling.

Is that correct?

[Scott Shortliffe]

Respectfully, I would not agree with that interpretation, because one thing we're trying to explore is how those streamers can be involved in making content themselves, and several of them are. They're commissioning Canadian shows and programming in Canada. There is involvement with Canadian music.

We don't see this as an adversarial process. We see this as a process where we're trying to make sure that each part of the industry is contributing in an appropriate way, and we're consulting broadly to achieve that end.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

As my Liberal colleague rightly pointed out, Spotify has seen an increase in French content by 225% in the last five years. This was done without Bill C-11. That seems like an increase in choice, doesn't it?

[Scott Shortliffe]

I would say that's actually something Spotify presented in its public testimony in front of us a few days ago. We were very pleased that Spotify came and shared its point of view. Obviously, it's a point of view that we are taking into account in our deliberations. One of the things we looked for was to hear the voices of streamers, as well as people who think streamers should be doing more in different ways. That is absolutely something they shared with us, and we'll be looking at that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much.

I will move over to Mr. Al Soud.

You have five minutes.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Hello, again.

It's clear that we collectively share the personal goal of ensuring and incentivizing the growth of Canadian broadcasting while also weighing the interest of consumers. You mentioned public consultations on several occasions already. What can we expect from the CRTC in terms of ensuring that both clarity and predictability are provided to both creators and platforms?

[Vicky Eatrides]

Maybe I can start with that.

We know that is key. We know that transparency and predictability are key. We know that moving quickly is key. I would say, again coming back to the outset of our being given the Online Streaming Act to implement, that we immediately set out a regulatory plan to give certainty as to what would be coming up and to give some sense of when that would be happening. That's one part of it: laying out what our regulatory plan was so that people knew what to expect.

I have a couple of other things, and then I can ask Scott to provide addition detail.

One is obviously in terms of our decisions. That is a key component of that. As we are rolling out these decisions, we are trying our very best, as a quasi-judicial tribunal, to make sure these decisions are in plain language so that they are clear: that they lay out the perspectives and the evidence that we've heard and are very clear in terms of what the decisions are.

One last thing that I could mention very quickly—and this comes back to the point about engagement—is that we are very much engaging a lot more with interested parties, with stakeholders. We have engagement teams, as Scott mentioned, that we have set up to make it easier to engage with the CRTC so that it's not just through the public proceedings. We've heard that the public proceedings don't work for everyone in terms of how formal they are. We certainly heard that in Whitehorse when we had a hearing on telecom in the Far North. We heard that this kind of formality is difficult to get through.

We've been engaging a lot. Scott and his team went across the country to engage with people on Canadian content. We really are trying to do better in terms of explaining our work.

I don't know if that does it. I'm happy to pass it over to Scott.

[Scott Shortliffe]

Can I add maybe just one thing?

In our hearings, we heard wildly divergent points of view. I'll make reference to the last question we had about Spotify presenting what it does. We had radio stations coming and disagreeing with them. People disagreed on many, many things, which is helpful. There were two things they seemed to agree on. One was the importance of data; the other one was the importance of clear rules. Everyone told us this: When you make your decisions, please make your rules clear, because the clearer they are, the easier it will be for us to implement them. I certainly think that is something the commissioners are taking into account in making decisions.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you for that. That was excellent.

My next question is in a similar vein. Would it be an accurate characterization, in your opinion, going back to the 280% growth that was highlighted earlier within the Franco-Canadian space on Spotify, that the goal here is to ensure that it's not merely coincidental or luck but that it's part of a growth strategy that our country and our media space infers? Is that an effective characterization of the intent here?

[Scott Shortliffe]

I want to be careful, again, about speaking about what it might mean for any specific player, including streaming services. I think, though, that we always bear in mind this question: What are our public policy objectives? In the end—and I'll use music as the example—we need to have a system that will create Canadian music, make it available and make it available in both languages. We recognize that the challenges for French-language music are appreciably different from the challenges for English-language music and that it will need specific strategies to support French-language music.

The test for us is a little less about what it will mean for this company or that company. Obviously, we need to determine that. However, the success measure will be that French-language music will continue to be produced in Canada and will be made available. People will discover it, and it will be enriching. That is a success.

That is the challenge that is before us. As several people have noted in their questioning, it is quite a challenge, but we're also, I believe, genuinely excited by the material that we have in front of us and the decisions that we can proceed to make.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Fantastic.

I have 30 seconds left, so I will take these last seconds to say, Mr. Shortliffe, that I look forward to future conversations, during which we can bond on our common nerdiness about the data and the way to get there.

Once again, we all truly appreciate your taking the time to be here with us. It is sincerely appreciated.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Next is Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

When Bill C‑11 came before the CRTC, the commission was already undergoing major changes. It was supposed to undertake other studies, including on broadcasting licences.

Given the urgency attached to it, was this bill too big for the structure of the CRTC? Should it have been fragmented or presented in a different way?

Do you have any comments on that?

[Vicky Eatrides]

We accepted the bill as it was given to us.

We set our priorities very quickly and put in place a regulatory plan to have smaller hearings. That's what we did.