COVID-19 Pandemic Committee on April 28th, 2020

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

This is nonsense. We're asking her to take action to prevent businesses from sending money provided by the government to tax havens. This is easy to do, and she's saying no.

We're asking her whether she's ready for the Government of Quebec to collect the GST from foreign businesses that don't pay taxes. Can you at least answer this question? The QST will be charged to foreign businesses that don't pay taxes. Could you at least say that the GST should be charged to these businesses? The mere fact that you're failing to do so proves how much you aren't taking this seriously, Minister Lebouthillier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before getting back to the honourable minister, I want to remind the members to ask their questions through the chair and to not put their questions directly to the person they're addressing.

Minister Lebouthillier, you have less than 15 seconds to respond.

[Diane Lebouthillier, Liberal, Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

The fight against tax evasion is a priority for our government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The honourable member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley.

Mr. Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm delighted to be part of this meeting. It has been a very interesting conversation.

My question, through you, is for the Minister of Finance.

I would like to circle back to something my colleague Mr. Deltell raised with the minister earlier in the meeting. It has to do with the eligibility of dividends as payroll to be eligible for the $40,000 CEBA loan. My understanding is that they are not currently.

I thought I heard the Minister of Finance say, though, that they were. I would like a simple answer. Can business people who pay themselves solely in dividends be eligible? Are they eligible for the CEBA or are they not? It's a yes or no question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The honourable minister.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said earlier, the programs we've put in place really need to be looked at in total. For the Canada emergency response benefit, the answer is yes. The dividends that someone would have paid in over the course of the last year would make them eligible for the emergency response benefit if they were getting them to an income above $5,000.

For the Canada emergency business account, the criteria right now is that you have to have $20,000 in payroll up to $1.5 million in payroll to be eligible for that $40,000. For the rent approach that we have come out with, and with more details coming out currently, for anybody who has rent that's payable in a commercial business up to $50,000—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, I have a few more questions on—

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

—they will be eligible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Mr. Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, through you to the minister, I want to stick to the CEBA right now, if we could.

I take it that if an employer pays themselves with dividends, the answer to my question is no, they are not eligible for the CEBA. I'll leave it to you to correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like what you said.

I have talked to business people in my riding who are very, very worried about qualifying for these programs. There are so many holes in these programs, gaping holes you could drive a truck through. Another one of them is, for example, that the CEBA loan is based on 2019 payroll. Many businesses are newer businesses. They don't have a 2019 payroll or they had only a small 2019 payroll. Many businesses are family-owned businesses that don't pay themselves and don't qualify.

Why are these businesses being excluded? On what date will the minister correct this injustice in the program, this unfairness in the program?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it's always important to talk about what we're trying to achieve. We're trying to make sure businesses have access to capital to get through this period. There have been 452,000 loans approved, representing over $16 billion that has been disbursed under the Canada emergency business account. Clearly, these 452,000 businesses have found a way to get into this program.

We recognize that we need to constantly be looking at these programs to make sure they're having the desired impact. That is what we're doing with this program, as with other programs, on a continuing basis. We will continue to do that. Our goal is to work with businesses to make sure we can find a bridge for them. That is also what the other programs, such as the rent program, are trying to achieve, which will be applicable for so many businesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Mr. Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, it seems completely unfair that a new business doesn't qualify simply because they don't have a 2019 payroll, but I'll leave it to the minister to sort that one out.

I want to turn to the hospitality sector for a minute. We had them at the finance committee last week. There are very, very serious problems in that sector. When it comes to the wage subsidy, if public health protocols have said that you can't open your business, the wage subsidy is not going to help you.

I'm wondering if the minister can answer as to whether there is going to be an industry-specific assistance program to help the restaurant and hospitality industry, which has been so adversely affected by this crisis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The honourable minister can answer in 30 seconds or less, please.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We recognize that the hospitality industry and many industries have been extremely impacted through COVID-19, so we are working to make sure we help across all sectors. The credit approaches have been cross-sector. I mentioned the 452,000 loans for the smallest of businesses. Similarly, we're looking at how we can provide credit for small and medium-sized business and larger businesses to get through this time. That will be across all sectors since we know there are many sectors that find themselves in extremely difficult positions right now.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Do I have time for one more question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Unfortunately, those are all the questions we have for today, and we'll proceed.

I want to thank all of you. I just want to remind all of you, as well, about the headsets. If you don't have one, please contact your IT ambassador. He or she will have contacted you by email, so you will probably find his or her name in your personal email. I was going to give out a website or a phone number, but this is a publicly transmitted meeting and I didn't want people from all across Canada asking for headsets, but you do have access to those people.

I encourage everyone who doesn't have a headset to contact their IT ambassador at Parliament. The person will send you your headset and you can benefit from good sound quality.

The big thing I want to clarify is that it's both so that you can hear and so the people who are listening can hear, because the microphone picks up your voice and it's closer. Much like wearing a mask for COVID, you're protecting yourself, but you're also thinking of others. It's something that I want any of you who do not have a headset to do.

I would like to thank everyone, the members, their staff, the IT staff and all our staff here, who were very helpful in getting this going, and then continuing to make sure that it all worked relatively well. We did have a few hitches, but nobody's perfect. We're working on perfection. I guess we're as Canadian as possible under the circumstances, if we go back to the original quote.

I want to again thank everyone, and thank our Deputy Speaker, Mr. Stanton, here on standby, who is always there and always helpful.

To all of you, I wish you a good day.

The meeting is adjourned. We'll meet again tomorrow at noon.

Have a good day, everyone.