Declaration of Emergency Committee on Sept. 29th, 2022

[Larry Brookson]

My concern when it started was the number of vehicles already established on Wellington Street, and that was the first weekend. During the first weekend, there started to be some removal of vehicles that were leaving overnight. My discussions with PSPC led them and the security partners to start establishing Jersey barriers, because what I didn't want to see happen was a backfill of those vehicles that, on their own initiative, decided to leave.

The decision by the city to, I guess, alleviate an issue in the suburbs or wherever, to let the vehicles come and just completely jam up Wellington Street, was a big concern for me, and that was the reason I tried to reach out to the mayor.

[Claude Carignan]

My understanding is that you did not agree at that time with the response strategy of the City of Ottawa security services or the Ottawa police.

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Mr. Chair, my responsibility is just to secure the precinct. My responsibility is also to take into consideration all factors, and this was one key factor that was a heightened concern for me. We had to respond accordingly.

[Claude Carignan]

So you were not on the same wavelength. You disagreed with them.

You can say it.

[Larry Brookson]

That's correct.

[Claude Carignan]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

You have 30 seconds left, Monsieur Carignan. I don't want to shorten your time.

[Claude Carignan]

That's fine.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

We will allow Senator Boniface to take the floor now.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you very much.

One of the perils of policing is that you use acronyms. Mr. Brookson, you referred to your time in the ERT. Can you just give a very brief description of that?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Mr. Chair, I apologize for the acronym. It's the emergency response team. I had the team up in Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, and I was also part of the A-division team responsible for the national capital region.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

You had some experience, then, in terms of managing these things before you came into this role.

[Larry Brookson]

That experience of ERT is a heightened tactical capability and the armaments that come with that tactical capability.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Training and such went with that. Am I correct?

[Larry Brookson]

That's correct.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I'm trying to think of recommendations going forward. When you look at protecting the precinct, when you're dealing with the number of partners that you do—as we saw, a number of partners came on the scene near the end of it—do you have any recommendations?

When I hear you say a coordination centre versus a critical incident operation, do you have any sense, given your experience, of whether or not there was opportunity for that critical incident to be much earlier?

[Larry Brookson]

Through you, Mr. Chair, Senator Boniface, I think Madame Lacroix mentioned this, too, looking forward.

Any time both institutions are sitting, we have approximately 135 to 140 guns on the precinct. What I don't need is more. What I do need more of are effective barriers and, more importantly to Ms. Lacroix's point, technology. What I lacked the most during this period was adequate situational awareness, and I can't rely simply on the human eye or the human asset to get me that.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you very much. I think that's a very good point for this committee, and I appreciate it.

Quickly, while I have a few minutes left, Mr. McDonell, I was taken by your comments around the complaints. You said that eventually there were so many that you quit taking them. What was the nature of the complaints generally, and how do you evaluate them as you do an internal report to think about how this should be done in the future?

[Patrick McDonell]

It's not that we quit taking them. The complaints were relative to what happened outside the parliamentary precinct and, more specifically, in and around Wellington Street. The staff would bring it to the attention of and call the Ottawa police, and there was little or no action taken, so they just put up with the harassment and went back to their office managers.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Just to be clear, though, you're referring to harassment of your staff—

[Patrick McDonell]

Yes, harassment to the staff....

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

—by those who would have been—

[Patrick McDonell]

On the street....

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

—protesting.

In terms of long-term effect on your staff, is it a prolonged event? Do we know if there is impact?

[Patrick McDonell]

Yes, there are some who are still affected by it, and if you go around and speak with shopkeepers and people working in the restaurants, they're still affected by it also.