Evidence of meeting #13 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:10 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
So you were not involved in developing any plan to move the trucks where it was more difficult?
7:10 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
No, I wasn't. That was part of the discussions between the police service partners. The PPS was not involved.
7:10 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
It's a bit odd that you weren't aware of this and didn't participate in these discussions. Did you ask for a greater presence in these discussions? After all, you had the mandate to protect parliamentarians. It is a bit peculiar that you were not part of these discussions.
7:10 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Again, the policing operations were governed and driven out by the policing partners, not the service.
7:10 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
I understand that this was not your own department, but you were like the client in all this. You were like a victim, as you were not part of the discussion and you were not consulted on the methods or tools. Earlier, during Ms. Lacroix's testimony, she said that she had not been informed of the declaration of the state of emergency before it was made. So you were not consulted or notified beforehand either.
7:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I've stopped your time. You can reclaim it, if you'd like to put the question again, sir.
7:15 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
That's nice, thank you.
Did you have any discussions with the two speakers about a possible declaration of emergency measures? Were there any pre-declaration exchanges with the two speakers, the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Speaker of the Senate?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Corporate Security, Senate
With respect to the Senate, Mr. Brookson and I briefed the Speaker, but only with regard to our ability to maintain access to Parliament for parliamentarians. We also provided advice when we sent the instruction not to report to the Senate during police operations.
7:15 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
How could you do that if you had no communication with the command centre? How did you do that coordination?
7:15 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
It's important that we decouple being involved with the definement of the operation and how the operation was going to roll out. Obviously, when the tactical plan was being put together by the policing partners, they kept us informed as to what those plans were going to be. It was of that information that we kept both administrations apprised.
Again, to Ms. Lacroix's point, ensuring the safe arrival and departure of our parliamentarians was always our collective objective throughout this period.
7:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
That concludes the five minutes with the additional time, Monsieur Carignan.
We will now move on to Senator Harder.
Senator Harder, sir, you have five minutes for your intervention.
September 29th, 2022 / 7:15 p.m.
Peter Harder Senator, Ontario, PSG
Thank you very much, Chair.
To our witnesses, thank you for presentations tonight, and through you, thank you to your respective staff, who have worked throughout this period to protect us and allow the Parliament of Canada to continue to function.
I'm struck by the testimony tonight, which was very consistent in viewing the occupation as a unique event—not a passive, nice gathering of protesters but rather more tumultuous than you've experienced in the past. Was there any time in the occupation when you feared a breach of the precinct?
7:15 p.m.
Director, Corporate Security, Senate
We actually did not have any breach of the precinct—
7:15 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
No, I know that. Did you ever fear that there would be a breach of the precinct?
7:15 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
That came around February 17 and 18. My concern at that was understanding the route and how the policing operation was going to unfold. I was increasingly concerned about the next day, when Parliament was going to be sitting, the route of our parliamentarians' foot traffic into West Block, and understanding where the police operation could be at that time. That was the biggest concern I had.
7:15 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
In that expression of concern, did the policing authorities take into account the advice you might have offered in assuring that parliamentarians, in the passage through...that their authorities would transpire in a coordinated and a proper fashion?
7:15 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Mr. Chair, it's important that when that level of a police operation gets put in place, it's really something that then gets governed on its own. What I appreciated the most from our policing partners was the information that they shared with us, which then brought me to the position of raising a concern about whether Parliament should take place on the Friday.
7:15 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
I now want to go to the tail end of this period of emergency declaration. As I observed the coordinated police action, it was a classic case in how policing should take place in terms of confronting and disabling an occupation. What level of coordination was there with the precinct's responsibility to ensure that, as that operation proceeded, there wouldn't be an inadvertent breach of the precinct?
7:20 p.m.
Acting Director, Parliamentary Protective Service
Through you, Mr. Chair, we took some increased measures by increasing the height of the fencing and what have you. That was something that I asked for specifically, just in alignment with the policing operation. My concern at the time was that as the police operation pushed westbound into West Block, it would collapse onto the precinct. That was something I wasn't prepared to permit.
The good news on how that rolled out, to your point, is that it was an operation that was done very well in comparison with maybe what it would have looked like 10 or 20 years ago, but there was nothing to the point...outside of, again, times when we were having roughly 150 to 160 parliamentarians and their staffers coming to work in this building every day.
7:20 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
Right.
My final question or observation for your comment would be this. Lessons learned include what we discussed earlier about expanding the precinct to incorporate Wellington, and other aspects that are being looked at. Without specifics, and I understand that you can't talk about the specifics, would it be helpful in your mind if this committee were to recommend in its findings an endorsement of the work that is being done to expand the protective area for Parliament?
7:20 p.m.
Director, Corporate Security, Senate
Yes. I think my recommendation would be to ensure that we have the necessary technology and infrastructure to allow us to close and secure the precinct when necessary.