Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2022

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

There was nothing to my knowledge. I think we need to be clear on mandates here. Strategic intelligence the OPP is providing is for our decision-making and our planning. That information is disseminated to CSIS, which is responsible for assessing it under the CSIS Act.

That is not the responsibility of me, as the commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police, or of the Ontario Provincial Police in general; nor do we have any assessment as to whether it meets the threshold for the Emergencies Act.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Motz, I apologize, but your time is up.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Ms. Bendayan, you have five minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague Mr. Naqvi.

Given the short amount of time, I'm going to go quite quickly.

To be clear, your testimony at the inquiry—and I'm reading from the record—is to the effect that in your opinion you believed that the blockades posed a risk to national security.

Do you stand by your testimony, sir?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I do.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

You also testified earlier this evening that there were 20 demonstrations across the province, including the blockade of the international border between Ontario and the United States. With 20 demonstrations across the province, with everything going on, did the OPP have enough resources at the time to end the illegal blockades throughout Ontario?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

The answer to that is very complex.

To end the blockades simultaneously at one point in time on one day would not—

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Respectfully, this was a blockade that went on for three weeks, so perhaps not all in one day, but over the course of three weeks, the demonstrations, the protests, the blockades were not successfully put to an end by the OPP.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

They were at various points in time. Yes, they were. They were all concluded successfully. We preserved life and prevented injury—

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Ottawa was concluded successfully only after the invocation of the Emergencies Act. Do you agree?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

In terms of timing, it was, but the operational plan was written on February 13 in the absence of the Emergencies Act.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Why did it take three weeks for a plan to be ready? February 13 was three weeks after the beginning of the blockade.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That is a question you'll have to ask the Ottawa police. They were the police of jurisdiction and were responsible for the development of an operational plan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

The Solicitor General of Ontario believed there were 1,500 OPP officers on the ground in Ottawa, whereas the mayor of Ottawa said there were 50.

How is it that there was such a breakdown of communication between the Ontario government and the OPP?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

The breakdown in communication was a result of administrative reporting to the Ministry of the Solicitor General. If I'm going to seek financial reimbursement from another police service, I have to have the approval of the Solicitor General. The number 1,500 came from financial accounting. It was based on the average number of officers who were there on any given day over the number of days they were there, which was equivalent to 1,500 officers. At that point in time there were not 1,500 officers on any given day.

On any given day across this province, I will have approximately 1,100 police officers on duty spread across 330 municipalities.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Naqvi, it's over to you.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Commissioner, you have been asked whether you asked for the invocation of the Emergencies Act, and you have said no, but you have also testified that the Emergencies Act was an extremely valuable tool.

Do you stand by that testimony?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I believe there were tools available to us in the Emergencies Act that were valuable. I think one of the things that should be looked at in the greater context is the outcome throughout the judicial system of criminal charges laid by the police in these types of situations and how they truly serve as a deterrent to future protests.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You've also testified, sir, the following:

These tools made our operation very effective, and in the absence of having those tools, we could not have been as effective as we were.

Is that still your assertion?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That would be my opinion on the combination of the tools that were available under the Emergencies Act and in the provincial legislation. They both provided very valuable tools.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You have also testified that among the powers that you were able to use, which were given to you in the Emergencies Act, were things like prohibiting people from attending designated areas; limiting the presence of children, which created a significant public safety risk; compelling service providers to assist with the removal of vehicles and providing indemnification for those service providers; and freezing accounts.

Is it still your opinion that those specific powers under the Emergencies Act were useful and effective for you to end the occupation here in Ottawa and the blockades?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I do think that they are useful and effective tools. I can't say to what degree they assisted in ending the blockade, but I do believe they are effective tools that can be utilized by law enforcement in these types of situations and circumstances. They were certainly tools that we could have relied upon in this particular situation.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But, sir, you've testified in the past that these were effective tools that you were able to use in relation to the incidents that took over the three-week period here in Ottawa and at our borders.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That's fair. They were effective tools. “Necessary”, I think, is something that needs to be explored further. There were criminal laws. There were HTA, Highway Traffic Act, laws that were available for some of those aspects. But yes, they were effective tools.