Evidence of meeting #18 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:20 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
That's very generous.
Mr. Motz, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you, Senator Patterson.
Mr. Hatch, I just want to encourage you to maybe reconsider a response that you provided. You said that you didn't think that it was appropriate, given the minuscule impact that the EA had on your clients.
As Senator Boniface asked, have you done a post-mortem, or are you going to consider doing one? It's your customer base. They may have a different view, and I would encourage you to maybe, with your 200 and some branches across the country, reconsider that, because this is an unprecedented event, and I think your clients might appreciate it.
Ms. Mason, I have a question for you.
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Can you stop my time, please? I have a question for Ms. Mason.
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
I apologize for interrupting my colleague.
I'm not aware of the rules. Can any member cede their time to any other member, including a senator to a member of the House?
9:20 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I think it's his time to cede, so, procedurally, I don't see that to be out of order.
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
It just never happens, Mr. Chair. We've always had senators ceding their time to other senators, as opposed—
9:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
—and members of the House ceding their time to other members of the House.
9:20 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I don't think it's outlined in any standing orders that I've seen. If you have one for reference, feel free to do that, but, for the time being, I'll grant the parliamentary privilege of Senator Patterson to cede his time to whomever he sees fit, and at this moment, it happens to be Mr. Motz.
9:20 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you, Chair, and I certainly concur with your ruling.
Ms. Mason, this question is for you.
As you are aware, the whole premise around the Emergencies Act was to be charter compliant. That was the rule around it. If you read the act over again, you'll see that there's a charter compliance requirement there.
In light of the government's regulations under the Emergencies Act to have a third party, namely you, the banking institutions, financial institutions, freeze accounts, do you not believe that the government was circumventing their charter obligations with respect to search and seizure?
9:25 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
I think that's for this committee and for the public commission to assess from a legal perspective.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
That's a nice skate; however, you're the banking institutions that represent the banking community that was asked to do this on behalf of your clients. I find it odd that, as general counsel, you wouldn't think that there are some obligations you also have to your clients under the charter.
9:25 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
No, the reason I say it that way is that both this hearing and the public commission are collecting information and creating findings on what took place. There have been competing versions of what was intended and how things were implemented. All I'm saying is that, when all the facts are before us, that is when we are in the best position to assess whether or not we feel the charter had, in fact, been respected.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Fair enough. I appreciate those comments. You're right; hopefully, we'll never be, or you'll never be, as the banking institutions, in this position again, where the government could invoke this on Canadian citizens for this reason.
Ms. Mason, are you aware of whether anyone from government, or any law enforcement agency, sought input from the banking associations prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act or the request to freeze accounts? You indicated earlier that you got a heads-up that it was coming. Previous to that, was there any indication from them, or did they seek your advice on how to do it from a banking perspective?
9:25 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
No. We were never approached to ask about how to seize accounts from a banking perspective.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay.
Mr. Hatch, given the fact that you weren't even included in those conversations, I suspect that you're in the same boat.
9:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
That's correct. We were not given any advance warning; quite the contrary, as I've already described.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Right. I agree with the assessment that it's unfortunate that you weren't considered to be part of the financial institution concept with the EA.
Anyway, Mr. Chair, I am done, given the time.
9:25 p.m.
NDP
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I have a question of clarification, Mr. Chair, just to confirm the next couple of weeks.
We have the two mayors for next week. Is that the extent?
9:25 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
On panel one we will have the mayor of the City of Windsor, Mayor Drew Dilkens, and the mayor of the Village of Coutts, Mayor Jim Willett.
On panel two we will have representatives from the trucking industry, including the Canadian Trucking Alliance and the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association. That is for the November 24 meeting.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
9:25 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
We have ITAC and Jody Thomas in the first panel. In the second panel, we have listed the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, followed by the Manufacturiers et Exportateurs du Québec.
9:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
I have an issue with the multitude of witnesses in conjunction with the anticipated evidence of Jody Thomas. Jody Thomas testified today at the commission. In terms of what we originally thought might have been a minor role vis-à-vis her involvement in the actual invocation and advice that she gave to the Prime Minister and cabinet, in light of the evidence that she has given today, which is extremely relevant and expansive, my view is that we need to have her alone for one of those panels for an hour and a half.
If there is no unanimous consent, I will be bringing a motion to that effect and seeking a vote, Mr. Chair.