No.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #18 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
Likewise, I was not.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Who ultimately made the decision to freeze bank accounts?
8:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
That's a more complicated question.
Within my opening remarks, I mentioned that one of the many difficulties we experienced in this process was that the government did grant financial institutions significant leeway and discretion in terms of which accounts to freeze. That's one side of the coin.
On the other side of the coin, of course, there was a list provided by the RCMP—
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
8:15 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
I'll disagree on this point. I don't think it was leeway....
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I'm sorry, but I'm going to pause for a second for a bit of a procedural intervention.
We're going to allow the member to direct the questions. The person who is asked the question will answer it. We'll continue on that way.
Mr. Motz, I paused the time. The floor is back to you, sir.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, witnesses, for your indulgence.
What was the basis for the decision your institutions made to freeze bank accounts?
Please answer quickly.
8:15 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
The basis of the decision was that someone was on the list as a designated person. Again, my point would be that there was no discretion there. We had a legal obligation to freeze if someone was a designated person.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Okay.
Again, you trusted the government.
Are you aware of any financial institution questioning the RCMP's rationale for including the accounts of certain individuals on their list of those allegedly involved in the convoy?
8:15 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
I am not aware.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Did the RCMP provide any probable cause, any evidence, anything equivalent to a search warrant with respect to any alleged criminal activity by those whose accounts you were asked to freeze when the RCMP provided you those lists?
8:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
That is a question that would be better directed to the RCMP, Mr. Chair.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
No, through the chair, you're the financial institution. Usually when you receive a court order, there's evidence there to suggest that you have some obligation. I take it by your answer that the RCMP did not provide any evidence of any criminal wrongdoing.
8:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
They did not, to my knowledge. They provided a list that was, it bears repeating, very targeted and short. Beyond the list, latitude was granted to financial institutions to freeze further accounts if they so chose.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
I'm sorry, Mr. Hatch, but do financial institutions not require law enforcement to at least provide a reason when they ask that individual accounts be frozen?
8:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
They do not, under the invocation of the emergency orders, no.
8:15 p.m.
General Counsel and Vice-President, Canadian Bankers Association
These were extraordinary measures.
I'm sorry.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
You haven't got legal counsel to give—
That's according to the government.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
The reason we're here today in this committee is to determine whether the government even had met the threshold to invoke the Emergencies Act.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
We are at the end of the intervention.
I would state—and I know that procedurally this feels a little bit clumsy, this round—that it's helpful if the members of the committee address their questions to a specific person. That way, it won't provide confusion for the witnesses.
We will now move on to a five-minute round with Mr. Naqvi.
Mr. Naqvi, you have the floor for five minutes.