Declaration of Emergency Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Jody Thomas]

I think there are some lessons learned but yet to be executed on—that is, understanding the open-source intelligence problem that I spoke about earlier.

I think—and this is something that the Clerk of the Privy Council said to us frequently—that police and national security people see things like convoys and protests all the time. This was different. I think it goes to Mr. Green's point, if I may, that we underestimate and underestimated—probably no longer—the ideologically motivated extremists. This problem exists in Canada, and it is here to stay. We need to understand what it is and have the tools to do something about it.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

That's the end of your time, Senator Patterson. Thank you very much.

May I take this opportunity to thank our guests for joining us? I know it's been a long two hours, but we're grateful for your appearance before us. We thank you, all, for coming.

Colleagues, it will be about a seven-minute break so that we can bring in our next witness by video conference.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I call the meeting back to order.

For our second panel this evening, we're joined by Jacob Wells, co-founder of GiveSendGo.

Mr. Wells, thank you for joining us.

[Jacob Wells, Co-Founder, GiveSendGo]

Thank you for having me.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I will remind you that translation is available through the globe icon at the bottom of your screen.

You will have five minutes for opening comments if you wish to add anything. I know you've provided us with a document.

Go ahead.

[Jacob Wells]

Thank you.

Good evening. Thank you to the chair and the committee members for inviting me to speak.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I have a point of order.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Sir, if you can just wait for a minute, we have a point of order.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Madam Chair, were the sound checks done with the witness before he testified?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Yes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Were those checks satisfactory?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Yes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I'm sorry, sir. Go ahead.

[Jacob Wells]

All right. Thank you.

Good evening. Thank you to the chair and the committee members for inviting me to speak.

My name is Jacob Wells. I am a co-founder of the crowdfunding platform givesendgo.com.

I'm humbled by the opportunity to participate in these proceedings, and I'm pleased to answer any relevant questions you have regarding the campaigns on GiveSendGo.

I'm amazed to see the growth of GiveSendGo since its inception eight years ago. It was established with one simple mission, which is to share the hope of Jesus through crowdfunding. It's my honour to be able to share that same hope with you today.

Our goal was to create a fundraising platform that brought the utility of online fundraising to the truth that life consists of more than just money and the material world. Again, our mission is to share the hope of Jesus through crowdfunding. Some of the ways in which we achieve this are by calling and praying with our campaign owners and sharing the hope we have through the messaging on our platform and our correspondence with our givers and other users.

Over the past eight years, GiveSendGo has become a leader in the online fundraising space and is now available in over 80 countries. Through our platform, millions of dollars are raised annually to help meet the needs of people and organizations in fulfilling their missions. Though much of what we will be discussing this evening revolves around a domestic humanitarian campaign that became politicized and international, the vast majority of campaigns on GiveSendGo are created by individuals raising money to meet needs such as medical bills, tragedies and mission trips.

One of the distinctions between GiveSendGo and other crowdfunding platforms is that GiveSendGo views itself as a service that allows the raising of funds for legal activities without discrimination. I, as a veteran of the United States Navy, and we, as a company, value freedom and the sacrifices paid for us to live in that freedom, even on matters that we may not personally agree with but are legal by the laws of our governments. Rather than make decisions about what types of legal activities we will host, GiveSendGo has largely chosen to allow the law to determine those boundaries.

I want to be very clear: We do have a verification team that does due diligence to ensure that the goals that are stated in campaigns we host are legal endeavours and that the recipients of the funds raised are identified and verified to use online payment services. As our payment processor does the same, we feel that campaigns on our platform are vetted thoroughly before any funds are disbursed. We then rely on the existing law enforcement agencies to do their job in investigating and enforcing any laws that are violated.

With that being said, I welcome your questions.

Thank you very much.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wells.

We'll begin our five-minute rounds, starting with Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good evening, Mr. Wells. Thank you for your appearance tonight.

[Jacob Wells]

Good evening. Thank you.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have a few questions to ask you for the next five minutes or so.

I want to start by highlighting what I deem to be the most important feature that distinguishes your crowdsourcing funding operation from your competitors, particularly GoFundMe. That is that you believe in the value of freedom.

Would that be a fair statement to summarize it succinctly?

[Jacob Wells]

That is fair. You are correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You were aware fairly early on that GoFundMe was initially involved in the “freedom convoy” movement, before your organization, and subsequently withdrew its support. You were aware of that.

[Jacob Wells]

We were.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

We questioned the legal representative of GoFundMe at great length. I understand they were actively engaged in dialogue with the Ottawa Police Service.

Can the same be said for your organization, during those early days leading up to police involvement, which disbanded the movement entirely?

[Jacob Wells]

We were not involved with any police force in Ottawa or Ontario. We were not contacted by any and didn't reciprocate. We didn't have any contact.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Within six days of the arrival of the “freedom convoy” in Ottawa on January 28.... We have GoFundMe on record saying that on February 2—many days before they cancelled their service—they were invested in assisting the police in ending the funding.

Did you ever take that approach with respect to the “freedom convoy”?