Why did it happen?
Evidence of meeting #20 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funds.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #20 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funds.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:50 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Why did it happen?
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Yes. I'll let you state it plainly. Why was not having the police available to use legal remedies...? I'll just put the card on the table. When Mr. Beatty and the drafters of this legislation first were contemplating the Emergencies Act, I'm not clear they ever contemplated the failure and breakdown of policing in the way that we watched and observed across the country.
Would you agree with that?
6:50 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
I would agree with your assessment of the Emergencies Act, yes. I think that in Ottawa, being the city of protests, the information—and I use the term “information” in addition to the word “intelligence”—that was provided and available to police gave a very mixed message at the beginning, and that—
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Just to be clear, some were saying they were going to leave in a couple of days—
6:50 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
That's right.
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
—and I think there were some other reports that suggested this was protracted, and they had no intention of leaving.
6:50 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Exactly.
I think the police, being used to managing protests in this city, thought they had a plan that would manage this situation. The magnitude of the situation and the number of trucks, and how entrenched they became very quickly in the city, were underestimated and a consequential issue.
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
In your opinion, from a threat assessment, how important was it for you to have the knowledge that there were members of Joint Task Force 2, members of the RCMP security detail for the Prime Minister and, we're hearing now, perhaps with leaks, that there were active-duty police officers and military.
When you talk about threats of ideologically motivated violent extremists, how important was it for you to understand that there were people with logistical knowledge and capabilities that would far exceed any typical protest you might see set up on the lawn of Parliament Hill?
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
As that information became available, certainly it was a concern—
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
It was very early on, the first weekend, as we started to understand who some of the players were, and we saw the supply chains and logistics that were being built to support the rigs staying in downtown Ottawa—
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Yes. Actually, they had an off-site supply station, for lack of a better term, where they could get warm, get fed, get fuel and then come back.
This is what I'm challenged with. While that was simultaneously happening, there was internal intelligence suggesting that these folks were going to wrap it up. When we talk about quality of information and intelligence, where were you drawing your intelligence from to make your decisions? Was it local, provincial or national?
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you for that.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
They're here for two hours, Madam Chair, so we'll be fine. We'll come back to that.
Senator Boniface, the floor is yours.
6:55 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Would you kindly take a minute or so to answer Mr. Green's question, because mine actually follows on his?
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Do you mean on intelligence sources?
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
I have my expert on intelligence here, and I'm going to ask him to step in.
We received intelligence from a number of sources: our own collection through CSIS, but also the OPP's collection, Project Hendon—I didn't know the name of it, but certainly it was available to the intelligence teams—our own assessment of open-source intelligence, and certainly the RCMP and their INSET teams.
Madam Chayer.
6:55 p.m.
Marie-Hélène Chayer Executive Director, Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre
Thank you very much, Madam Thomas.
Yes, as Madam Thomas mentioned, there are several intelligence agencies in town that were looking at this from their own specific mandates.
With my organization, ITAC, I had the pleasure of appearing before this committee a few months ago, if you remember. Our responsibility is to assess the likelihood of a terrorism attack happening in Canada and overseas. We looked at the situation from that perspective and we shared our assessments and our reports with the broader national security community in Ottawa, as well as with our colleagues in other jurisdictions, such as law enforcement.
As you will have heard before, national security governance met regularly during the events and each intelligence assessment agency shared its relevant assessments with colleagues.
6:55 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you.
Mr. Green, would you like to add something briefly?
December 1st, 2022 / 6:55 p.m.
Martin Green Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Intelligence Assessment, Privy Council Office
Yes. I would briefly add that I think it was during the first week, Mr. Green, when there were more and more open-source reports with respect to former police and former CAF members. There was one who said he was an intelligence officer who, evidently, worked in my section, but I found out that it was 20 years ago and he was on a short contract.
That was disturbing in terms of how sophisticated the logistics and the intel might be.
6:55 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you.
That leads, Ms. Thomas, to some comments you made around the online information you were picking up. Clearly, the act, when it was designed, did not have that in mind 30-some years ago.
Can you give us a sense of what that information was that you were picking up online? How would you assess it in terms of escalation and de-escalation in relation to certain occurrences taking place?
6:55 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you very much for that question.
Madam Chayer is actually the best one to respond to that.