Declaration of Emergency Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Jacob Wells]

That information is submitted through our payment solution into a database. We don't hold those numbers personally ourselves. The number goes into a database, and the identity is verified by the input of that information and also an ID, some sort of government-issued identification. With the conjunction of those things and the information provided, we can validate and verify the person receiving the funds.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Can you just tell us what the state of the $10 million in fundraising accomplished on your platform through donations is? Where is it at, currently?

[Jacob Wells]

The vast majority of those funds were refunded because they couldn't accomplish the ends that the givers intended. They were refunded, I believe, in mid-March back to the givers. A percentage of those funds had been transferred to a Canadian account, Chad Eros, who was the treasurer for the “freedom convoy” organization. Those funds have been put in escrow, I believe, pending litigation and various things.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

In terms of the program “adopt a trucker”, just help me understand what the purpose was. How do you sell that to somebody?

[Jacob Wells]

GiveSendGo, itself, doesn't. Campaign owners set up campaigns. They come on, and they begin a fundraising effort. They tell people what they are fundraising for. In that case, I believe it was someone who was raising funds to provide for displaced families, families of truckers who were put out of work because of the mandates that had been enacted, and things of that nature.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

So it was not, in your mind—at least, when you assessed that—connected to what some of us here determined were blockades that were interrupting the economy of the country. You wouldn't do any work or make any effort around that to make sure that connection wasn't taking place.

[Jacob Wells]

What we look at is what the campaign owner has stated, what they are fundraising for. Is that a legal objective? If it's a legal objective.... If they were to take their money.... Just like anyone, if they were to get money from their job and go do something illegal with the money they've earned, that's illegal and there are law enforcement procedures to go after people who do illegal activity, so—

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I have to stop you, Mr. Wells, because I'm getting the sign that I'm out of time.

Thank you.

[Jacob Wells]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We'll go back to our list, to Senator Carignan for five minutes.

[Claude Carignan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Is funding between countries illegal?

Is it illegal for Canadians to fund activities in the United States or for Americans to fund activities in Canada?

[Jacob Wells]

No, it isn't. It happens quite often.

[Claude Carignan]

Thank you. I have no further questions.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Senator Harder, you have five minutes.

[Peter Harder]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Wells, were you aware that at least the document from early on in the convoy articulated their desire to come to Ottawa, overthrow the government and have the Senate of Canada go to the Governor General and form a new government?

In your view, is that sedition and overthrow of a government a legal act that would express sharing the hope of Jesus?

[Jacob Wells]

What campaign owners do as a fundraising effort, we don't say is necessarily sharing the hope of Jesus. What we do, in our engagement with those campaign owners, is sharing the hope of Jesus. There's definitely a distinction there.

As to the question about that memorandum, or what you're suggesting, the parties who were involved in the fundraising piece made no reference to that. They actually disavowed anything like that—

[Peter Harder]

So you really don't vet your prospective clients. You take them at their word, and if they were to pursue illegal activities with those funds, you would simply say, “Well, that's not what they told us”, so there is no vetting process.

[Jacob Wells]

There is a vetting process, because, currently, if you are a terrorist, or if you are a person of interest, you're placed on lists. If you've defrauded banks and you've been added to lists, you're not able to avail yourself of the financial infrastructure. When you're vetted, you're vetted as a person who is able to access banking infrastructure, and you haven't broken laws that would disavail you of those things. And when—

[Peter Harder]

But if your intent was.... As I understand it, you were happy to fund the January 6 group going to Washington and then, oh gosh, you were surprised that they were involved in events that led to the murder of at least one policeman.

[Jacob Wells]

Again, I don't know of any murder of any police officer, but the reality in free societies is.... We can get into the idea of thought crime, like we're going to prejudge what people do. Typically, when people come—and this is what we find to be the case—and they state what they're doing, and make a lawful claim and make claims to it, and it's authorized—

[Peter Harder]

Mr. Wells, how many other fundraising activities are presently involving Canadian organizations?

[Jacob Wells]

We have thousands and thousands of campaigns on GiveSendGo.

[Peter Harder]

Are they in Canada?

[Jacob Wells]

There are probably hundreds of campaigns in Canada that are active right now. As I mentioned, the vast majority of them are for medical bills, for people helping people in their community.

In response to “freedom convoy 2022”, this was an Ontario-sanctioned, incorporated not-for-profit that came to GiveSendGo to fundraise. We have the incorporation documents from the Province of Ontario incorporating them.

[Peter Harder]

Are you aware that, consequent to the emergency, legal changes have been enacted that now require online crowdfunding platforms to report large or suspicious transactions to the financial transactions and reports analysis centre here in Canada?

If so, how has that affected your business? If not, would you review this as to how it should change your business?