Evidence of meeting #20 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funds.
A video is available from Parliament.
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Ms. Bendayan took you to some articles that were recently unearthed, given that a search warrant was unsealed, I believe in the Superior Court in Lethbridge, Alberta. Some of what was unearthed when that search warrant was opened was that the leadership team that was orchestrating the Coutts blockade talked about “the elimination of...the professional political class”. That was one of the quotes. It also had information about the real goal of the protest, including “altering Canada's political, justice and medical systems”.
Are you aware of that information?
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
We know that Coutts was cleared on or about February 13-14. Once Coutts was cleared, was it your understanding that the threat was over at the Coutts border, or did you have a sense that threats continued to exist there or in other parts of the country?
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you for the question.
When the Coutts situation was cleared, because of the weapons found, we were relatively certain that Coutts would remain clear. However, we were uncertain...and certainly had knowledge that Ottawa was far from clear. We were starting to hear the same language: weapons in the rigs, weapons in Ottawa, knowledge of weapons.
For protection of the criticality of that investigation, the police were keeping a very close hold, which I completely understand and respect. When we were hearing the same language about Ottawa, it would have been negligent not to make the same presumptions about the potential of weapons in Ottawa.
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
What would you say with respect to border blockades in places like Manitoba, British Columbia, etc.?
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
We were increasingly concerned about British Columbia. On the evening of the 13th, a vehicle rammed through the border. On any given day, there was activity in a different location that was causing concern.
Again, the continual flow of intelligence was that pop-ups were being formed to support...from the island to go to Surrey, from B.C. to drive across the country to bolster Ottawa. The movement was in fact—despite what happened at Coutts—growing, not diminishing.
8 p.m.
Liberal
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
That was before the invocation.
8 p.m.
Liberal
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
They continued, yes.
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Your job as national security adviser—I'm sorry to ask you such a trite question—is to provide advice to the Prime Minister and to cabinet with respect to security threats.
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
I provide advice and information.
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
This perceived threat, from your perspective, would have informed your advice to the Prime Minister when you were asked pointedly about whether the invocation of the Emergencies Act should occur.
8 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
You also testified at the same inquiry before Justice Rouleau with respect to the definition. I think this was to the Canadian Civil Liberties Association counsel; I know there were many counsel asking you questions.
I believe you noted that the definition of national security needed to be modernized to reflect the nature of modern threats and that different threats may not meet the current section 2 definition. Can you expand on what you were getting at in that response?
8 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
When the Emergencies Act was written, the presumption and understanding of threat at that time was something manifesting probably overseas as a threat against Canada—hopefully never to the extent of, but more along the lines of 9/11—rather than what we saw on January 6.
With January 6, that kind of domestic threat is a movement rather than a structured organization with command and control. That is what terrorist cells, for lack of a better term, used to have, a command-and-control situation where people were given their tasks and they went and executed them.
The IMVE movement is exactly as has been described by my colleagues here today. They are people with views, generally awful, but lawful, as CSIS says, who can use social media to bring other people into those views using misinformation and disinformation. And that motivates people to act.
There have been—
8:05 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Madam Co‑Chair.
Ms. Thomas, how many people were on Parliament Hill or on Wellington Street at the height of the protests?
8:05 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
The height of the protest was on the weekends, and we had counts of 500 to 700 rigs and 8,000 to 10,000 people.
8:05 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I see.
If we found out today that another protest was being planned for January and that an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 people would be on the Hill, would you recommend that the Prime Minister invoke the Emergencies Act?