Evidence of meeting #5 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Yes. Could the minister be allowed, and could all witnesses be allowed, to answer the question? Thank you.
8:15 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Mr. Brock must allow the minister to answer, but I don't think he's preventing him from doing so. He is trying to narrow the scope of the answer. I will allow Mr. Brock to continue asking his questions for the moment.
You have two minutes left, Mr. Brock.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Minister, you may not like the question and you may not like the premise of the question, but the question is this: Did you—you, as the head legal representative of the country of Canada—interpret that manifesto...? I'll repeat that the manifesto was to meet with the Governor General, then to meet with senators, then to form a Canadian citizen group and then to take over the government. Did you view that as a violent insurrection against the Canadian government, yes or no?
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
I took the manifesto for what it was, and I gave it the weight that it deserved.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Did you view that as a violent attempt to overthrow the Canadian government? For the fourth time, now, Minister, will you answer the question?
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
It's a silly question. I took the manifesto for what it was and I gave it the weight that it deserved.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
No, I was referring to your question, with all due respect.
I took the manifesto for what was and I gave it the weight it deserved.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
There were no guns found. There were no tanks brought to Wellington Street. No one stormed any Parliament buildings. There were no efforts to occupy any government buildings. Some called on the Prime Minister to resign, but there were no forms of force to try to make that happen under the manifesto.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm not talking about Coutts. I'm talking about downtown Ottawa.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
You have heard from other police officials that there were other threats across the country.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Minister, I'm talking about downtown Ottawa. I'm not talking about Coutts.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm talking about downtown Ottawa. That's my question. I'm talking about the freedom convoy here in the nation's capital, Ottawa.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
We took into consideration facts across the whole country. You have heard some of them. You have seen some of them published in our documents that were tabled in the House of Commons.
8:15 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
You're time is up.
Thank you, Minister and Mr. Brock.
Mr. Virani, you have the floor for five minutes.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you, Minister.
You didn't have a chance to finish your response.
We talked about how statements were made, but actions were taken by people on the ground. What caused you, in terms of the actions taken by the people on the ground here in Ottawa, to consider it an unlawful act of dissent or unlawful protest?
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Legal protests don't infringe on the rights of other people. Freedom of expression doesn't trench upon the rights of other people.
This was well beyond freedom of expression. It was impeding the citizens of Ottawa from living their lives. As you heard from Minister Mendicino, it was impeding businesses in Ottawa from going about their daily affairs. People were being harassed on the street. It was basically slowing down the functioning of the city of Ottawa. Mr. Virani, that is well beyond the limits of free speech.
No right is unlimited. Every right is limited by the rights that other people have and we had to take that into account as responsible legislators.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Minister, the right to lawful protest is specifically carved out in the regulations that were passed after the order was invoked. It specifically talks about “measures to regulate or prohibit any public assembly—other than lawful advocacy, protest or dissent”.
I presume you took it seriously to ensure that lawful protest in front of the house of Parliament—in front of our national legislature—was an important thing to protect.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Absolutely. We see it on Parliament Hill all the time.
In fact, when the Ottawa police, working in conjunction with a number of other police forces, cleared Wellington Street, the protesters set up legally on sidewalks further down the street and nobody bothered them. They were allowed to make their point. That's legitimate free speech. That's legitimate protest.
That's not what the situation on Wellington Street was or on the Ambassador Bridge or in Coutts, Alberta.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
I'll just add parenthetically that certainly no tanks were in existence, as Mr. Brock rightfully pointed out. The only person to suggest the invocation of the army was actually Senator Carignan in response to questions for Minister Mendicino. I'll put that aside for a moment.