Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 10th, 2022

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Having those funds would have allowed people to stay much longer if they could continue to fuel their trucks, their stomachs and their families, of course. When we look at things that were done under the Emergencies Act nationally, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police is actually looking at some of the things that were invoked, the authorities that were given by the Emergencies Act, to see if they're things we should be looking at as future legislation that would assist us going forward.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Commissioner, thank you very much.

Monsieur Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Lucki, when responding to a question from my fellow member Ms. Bendayan, you confirmed that you found several weapons, including machetes. In your career as a police officer, is this the first time that you've found that type of weapon at a site?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

No.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay.

Ms. Lucki, I was listening to the questions from my fellow members, including Mr. Lamoureux's. He said that, where he lives, in Manitoba, it was extremely serious.

I imagine that you read the Proclamation Declaring a Public Order Emergency, did you not?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Did you read the text that accompanied the declaration of emergency, entitled “Report to the Houses of Parliament: Emergencies Act Consultations”?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes, I did some time ago.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay. Page 5 of the report indicates that there was a consultation with the premiers concerning the Emergencies Act. It states verbatim that “The Prime Minister convened a First Ministers’ Meeting on February 14, 2022, to consult premiers” on the declaration of an emergency.

That report reveals that Ontario, Newfoundland and Labrador, and British Columbia supported the proclamation, but not the other provinces and territories.

My fellow member Mr. Lamoureux spoke about Manitoba's position. The report states, “The Premier of Manitoba issued a statement in which she noted that the situation…is very different and she is not currently satisfied the Emergencies Act should be applied in Manitoba.” She even said that “in her view…the…Emergencies Act [is] not constructive in Manitoba, where caution must be taken against overreach and unintended negative consequences.” Clearly, the Premier of Manitoba did not agree with Mr. Lamoureux or with the Prime Minister of Canada.

I can't spend my five minutes reading a text, but I will quickly note that Quebec said that it would be divisive and was opposed to the proclamation. For its part, Alberta said that it opposed the invocation of the Emergencies Act. Saskatchewan said that the police had sufficient tools to enforce the law and end the blockades, and was not in favour of invoking the Emergencies Act. New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island said that it was not necessary. The three territories—Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut—simply did not provide any comments. I conclude from that that they certainly did not ask for the act to be invoked. Ultimately, only three of 13 premiers said that it would be useful.

You said that you never requested the declaration of an emergency. To your knowledge, no one requested it. You told us that the protests and blockades elsewhere, other than in Ottawa, were brought under control and dismantled without the use of a declaration of emergency.

I've just explained that seven premiers did not want it, that three did not express an opinion and that only three were in favour of it. In addition, you said that, on February 12, you had a plan to dismantle the blockades and end the protest on the Hill. On February 12, you asked for additional resources from elsewhere in Canada. Those resources arrived and it worked. I think it took three or four days to end the protests and blockade.

In your opinion, Ms. Lucki, was there still justification to invoke the Emergencies Act?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

The plan we put in place worked as a result of the Emergencies Act measures.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Yet, you told us that it was February 12, Ms. Lucki. You prepared the plan on February 12. You waited for resources, and when they arrived, you carried out the operation as planned. So the proclamation played no part in it.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

The enforcement plan wasn't put into place until approximately the 16th. It was after the pronouncement of the Emergencies Act. Those measures assisted us in reducing the footprint so that we could safely enforce. Otherwise, there would have been far too many people in the area—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Ms. Lucki, it was the February 12 plan. You told us that, on February 12, you did not even know that the declaration would take place on February 14. Things were put in place, the provincial premiers confirmed that you were right and that you could get it done without the Emergencies Act. Why, then, did the act need to be invoked?

I don't see the necessity. With respect, Ms. Lucki—I know you weren't the one who invoked it—but you are the head of the RCMP. I would have liked to know how you justified that.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Fortin, I apologize. I have been generous.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Go ahead, Mr. Green.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you.

Mr. Vigneault, in an early report dated January 27, ITAC concluded that a coordinated and complex terrorist attack or planned storming of Parliament or other federal locations was unlikely. However, in the same report, ITAC provided information to the government that talked about how it was likely that there were extremists involved, and the scale of the protest could pose a trigger point and opportunity for potential lone actor attackers to conduct a terrorist attack.

Is that correct?

[Marie-Hélène Chayer, Executive Director, Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre, Canadian Security Intelligence Service]

Thank you very much.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. Vigneault, is that correct?

[David Vigneault]

Mr. Green, I have the executive director of ITAC, who is the author of that document. I'm going to turn the floor over to her.

Thank you.

[Marie-Hélène Chayer]

Thank you very much for the question.

Yes, indeed, we published a report, which was—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Was that back in January?

[Marie-Hélène Chayer]

Yes, it was.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Okay. Was it your assessment, particularly given the investigations—I'm assuming ITAC would have led or at least supported some of the investigative work at Coutts—that there was a threat of terrorism, given the discoveries at Coutts?

[Marie-Hélène Chayer]

What ITAC does, if I may just explain briefly—