Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 10th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Did a representative from the Prime Minister's Office take part in those discussions?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Not in those discussions, no. It was all part—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

What elements were cited as likely to lead to a proclamation declaring a state of emergency? What were you told?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I have no idea what would trigger it. All I know is that I provided on-site advice from the situational awareness for the decision-makers on what was happening on the ground in all police jurisdictions from coast to coast to coast.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Across the country, how many situations were considered to be out of control and requiring the declaration of a state of emergency?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

What I can say is that obviously we had the Ottawa protests that were very long and the occupation of the downtown. The protest at the Windsor border was of course concerning.

In the RCMP jurisdiction, for example, in Emerson and Coutts, we had ways of diverting traffic. Although they couldn't get through that primary border crossing, we had alternate routes and—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Excuse me, Ms. Lucki, I don't want to be rude, but we really don't have a lot of time.

Could you send me a document listing all the locations where there was a situation that required the declaration of a state of emergency, in your opinion, and indicating the exact situation at each location? For instance, the list could indicate that there was a bridge blockade in Windsor. Would you be able to provide me with that information?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Well, again, we have put in all of our documents for release—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Could you send me that list in writing, Ms. Lucki? I'm running out of time.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I'm not sure. I would definitely have to check with the people who I've disclosed the information to.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

In fact, that was more or less what you said. You said that you attended a meeting about a week before February 14, where you spoke with these people about situations across the country. That is what you just said, but now you're saying that you don't know. However, if you discussed it, you know what was going on at that time.

I want to know what those situations were. We know that the situation on Wellington Street lasted for weeks, but I would like to know where else the situation had become unmanageable.

That's part of your comments. I'm asking that you summarize it for me in a document, instead of listing it verbally. Can I count on your co‑operation, Ms. Lucki?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I will see what I can do to provide.... We—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

It's not very complicated. I'm asking you to provide to me in writing, based on what you just said, what you said to the people at the meeting in question. You told them that there were urgent problems on the ground.

I don't know where you're looking while I'm speaking.

Who prepared the notes that you read in your introduction, Ms. Lucki?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I can only speak to what happened in RCMP jurisdictions, from an RCMP perspective—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Then ask your boss to appear before us.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

—and the actions within our areas of jurisdiction.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

If you can't answer this question, I'd like to question your boss so he can respond because I need this information.

I've just wasted my five minutes asking you for a list of places where there were problems. It's too bad because I had a lot of other questions for you. I'd like to see co‑operation from the RCMP, Ms. Lucki. That's the least you can do. I didn't ask for anything complicated. I have yet to ask you for a copy of the legal opinions. I'm simply asking for a list of places where there were problems.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Go ahead.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

If something is being requested of a presenter, and they decide to make it available, is it shared amongst all the committee members?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Yes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Green, you have five minutes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you.

I just want to begin by noting the frustration of my colleagues around the table and state that, while we have witnesses present, it is by no means personal or directed to individuals, but I think at some of the institutional frustrations.

I'd like to begin with Mr. Vigneault, from CSIS.

Sir, are you familiar with the duty of candour under the CSIS Act?