Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes, I am familiar with that.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Would you agree with the statement that the House of Commons and the courts are coordinate authorities?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I'm not sure what you're referring to by “coordinate authorities”.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I mean that the terms of reference of this particular committee would require you to have a duty of candour, given that the House of Commons and the Senate are coordinate authorities to the courts through common law.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
What I can say is, to the best of my ability and the limits of the CSIS Act and the Security of Information Act, Mr. Green, I will absolutely endeavour to be as candid as possible with you and all committee members.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
So, will the information be presented completely, accurately, fairly and fully?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I am always frank in my discussions with members of Parliament.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Commissioner Lucki, you've heard the questions I've asked Mr. Vigneault. Given that context, I would as you the same.
I would actually go further and let you all know that at the beginning while contemplating the procedures of this committee, we contemplated having you all swear an oath. I feel that the seriousness of this committee is undermined when we don't get the frankness and the concise and full information that we deserve.
Having heard that, Commissioner Lucki, do you also agree to the duty of candour?
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Okay.
Mr. Vigneault, you made a comment that you were prevented from making statements in public, sir. If you are familiar with the terms of reference of this committee, you will know that this committee has been sworn to be provided with information that is sensitive, given the seriousness of the invocation of this act. Given that's the case, and given you've agreed to the duty of candour that you have, if you ever feel like you can't say something in public, would it be your wish, then, that we would invite you back in camera to get to the fullness of the answers?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Absolutely. Whatever the committee decides to do, of course I will try to comply to the best of my ability and to answer all the questions with candour. There are limitations on what I can say publicly in terms of classified information, and in terms of advice provided—
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
We've been sworn in, sir, so I'll go to my first question.
Paragraph 2(d) of the CSIS Act identifies the following as “threats to the security of Canada”:
activities directed toward undermining by overt unlawful acts, or directed toward or intended ultimately to lead to the destruction or overthrow by violence of, the constitutionally established system of government in Canada
Convoy organizers released a memorandum of understanding stating their goal of overthrowing Canada's democratically elected government. In this context, how did CSIS assess the threat to the security of Canada in relation to paragraph 2(d) of the CSIS Act?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
This is one area that is of a very complex nature. The element related to subversion has to be assessed extremely carefully. I would refer you to some of our annual reports that have been tabled in Parliament. In the past, in recent years, CSIS has not investigated acts of subversion. With the rise of the threat posed by ideologically motivated violent extremists, what we are seeing now—
NDP
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I'm trying to answer, Mr. Green.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Respectfully, we have five minutes in these rounds, and having you dance around the question when I ask a specific question, in my opinion, is not your being frank, sir. I'm asking a question that is germane to the invocation of the declaration with high specificity. I'm requesting that you answer that question specifically. I'm not interested in what you've done in the past.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
What I'm saying, Mr. Green, is that I think it's important for the committee members to understand that when we assess the threat of IMVE, we look at the acts of violence and we also look at acts of subversion.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
It's not about finishing, sir. It's about answering the question that's directed to you.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Mr. Green, can you repeat the question quickly because you're running out of time.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
The question is, how did CSIS assess the threat to the security of Canada in relationship to paragraph 2(d) of the CSIS Act, as it relates to the invocation of the Emergencies Act.
That's a direct question, sir.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes and, Mr. Green, I would answer you that all of the classified advice we provide to the government I'm not at liberty to discuss—