Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 10th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

No.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

There will not be another round after this?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Oh, perhaps; go quickly.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Well, I would add that time to my next round. I believe we will have time for another round.

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

All right. Thank you.

We will move to Mr. Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Are you adding Ms. Bendayan's five minutes to mine? I see you aren't. Okay.

Ms. Lucki, you told us that the situation on Wellington Street, here in Ottawa, got worse from one weekend to the next. I repeat that, elsewhere in Canada, you ended blockades without the use of emergency measures. Here, on the Hill, we know that that was a problem, and the declaration took effect on February 14 of this year. Before that, I know you set up a special team in co‑operation with the Ontario Provincial Police and the Ottawa Police Service. You told us in your comments that the situation got worse from one weekend to the next, that it was going from bad to worse.

Were you waiting for a specific event or time before taking action? Why was the situation getting worse? What were you waiting for before taking action?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I would say from the RCMP policing perspective that the blockade in Ottawa was supported and organized by several organizers who were able to obtain significant amounts of funding. So that changed it. It was in an urban environment as opposed to a rural environment—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Excuse me for interrupting, Ms. Lucki, but I have very little time.

What were you waiting for? You told me that the situation was getting worse from one weekend to the next. Were you waiting for a specific event, specific authorization or a specific time? What were you waiting for to take action when you saw that the situation was deteriorating each week?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

We were there to assist with the police of jurisdiction, which was the Ottawa Police Service. I can't say what they were waiting for. I can say that the funding allowed the protest to grow, particularly over the weekends, and there was—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You can't answer. I know that the Ontario police....

There was a team of people from the Ontario Provincial Police, the Ottawa Police Service and the RCMP. You said that you consulted each other and that you worked together. You saw the situation getting worse from week to week.

As the leader of the RCMP, what were you waiting for to say enough is enough and that action needed to be taken?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Well, what I wanted to see was a solid enforcement plan, and that was put together by the Ontario police—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You told us that you had a solid plan on February 12. You were no longer waiting for that.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes. We brought planners together and we put together a plan. A massive amount of resources were required. We needed to bring the resources into the city, because the plan required more resources than we had on the ground. We brought resources from across the country—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay. What resources did you bring in from elsewhere in the country, and what were you waiting for?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

I will pass that to my colleague Mike Duheme, who was running that—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I'd like your response. What were you waiting for, Ms. Lucki? Aren't you in charge?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes. I am. I was waiting for the—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay. What were you waiting for to take action? You say that you were waiting for resources from elsewhere. What resources are you referring to?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

They were resources from Regina city police, from RCMP across the country, from Saskatoon police and from Calgary police, I believe. Resources from all over the country were being brought in, and officers from across the country, so that we could effectively enforce, going into that last weekend—

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay, I understand. You're talking about human resources, police officers. You were waiting for police officers, not tow trucks.

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Yes.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I have one last question for you in the 15 seconds I have left.

What would you do differently if a situation like that happened again today?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

With the benefit of hindsight, obviously, when we were looking at the biker convoy that came through, we brought in lessons learned, of course. They included blocking off certain areas, no stopping, not allowing people to park and stop. A slow-moving protest is fine.

Another lesson was engaging with the protest organizers. In the motorcycle one there was one organizer. In the protest in Ottawa there were seven or eight different organizers, so it was hard to get any agreement amongst the various groups there because there were team captains from every part of the country.

Obviously, we had the benefit of hindsight from what we learned from the protest in Ottawa and we were able to use that for the thunder convoy that came in a couple weekends ago.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you, Commissioner. I'm afraid Mr. Fortin's time is up.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In closing, I congratulate you, Ms. Lucki. It was a good response.