Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
Commissioner, on February 15, the CBC reported that police sources said the RCMP had delayed requests for additional resources here in Ottawa because Ottawa police services had failed to put forward “a solid operations plan”.
Is that true?
Commr Brenda Lucki
We provided several resources just prior to the enforcement plan's being put in place. When there were additional requests for resources, we were inquiring as to how they were going to use those additional resources. For us to get additional resources, we'd have to go outside of Ontario and Quebec, so we wanted to make sure there was a plan in place to use those resources.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
That plan on February 15 presumably would be with the authorities that the emergency invocation provided.
Commr Brenda Lucki
The plan started before the invocation and into the invocation of the act. We assisted OPS in the execution of that plan.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
Is it your testimony that while the emergency invocation was not necessary for the plan that you had been developing, it did provide the police with authorities that were helpful after February 14 in executing the plan?
Commr Brenda Lucki
Absolutely. The provisions granted the RCMP and policing partners new authorities that would reduce that footprint because there is no way we could enforce with the maximum amount of people there.
There was a large group that refused to leave. No matter what things were tried by the police, there was a group that just would not leave. We needed ways to first of all stop additional people from coming in. Therein lay the perimeter that was put around the city. We would stop convoys that were heading from across the country. They would be stopped on roadsides or on roads coming towards Ottawa.
We also motivated people to leave by providing the information to the banks. We had one example where one individual said he must leave because he got a call from his spouse and was told that their bank account was frozen. He needed to leave or else they wouldn't be able to access—
Senator, Ontario, PSG
Commissioner, I'm going to be cut off in a few seconds. I just want to emphasize that in my view, the actions by police prior to the invocation of the act demonstrated a series of police failures. Not wilful failures, but there was an inability of police to contain and act appropriately in reducing the occupation here in Ottawa.
I find it surprising that you would say that there has been no failure of policing in respect of these incidents.
Thank you.
Senator, Ontario, C
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thanks, again, to the witnesses.
The Emergency Planning and Responses bylaw of the City of Ottawa was invoked. The province identified that it was an emergency as well amid convoy protests. In fact, there were fines of up to $100,000 for anybody who would block and impede.
Did neither of those pieces of legislation give tools to law enforcement to actually have a positive movement when it came to removing people from in front of Parliament Hill? Certainly it would be deemed critical infrastructure, I think.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I am not sure specifically on the powers that the city invoked. I know that when the province invoked its Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act, there were powers that were included. I don't recall what they were offhand, but I could pass it to my partner. Deputy Commissioner Mike Duheme might have an idea of those.
D/Commr Michael Duheme
Senator White, I am not aware of any application of that in the downtown core. That would be better suited to the Ontario police or the OPS, but from the RCMP's perspective, we we haven't enforced that one.
Senator, Ontario, C
You were sitting at joint command at that point, right, deputy? Was there no discussion around these new powers they had as a result of these two new pieces of legislation that were invoked provincially and municipally?
D/Commr Michael Duheme
I don't have the finite details of those. I don't recall them being used in downtown Ottawa. That's not to say they weren't used in other parts of Ontario, but I don't recall that.
Senator, Ontario, C
Thanks, deputy.
Now that you've been thrown into the breach, I'll stick with you.
There have been suggestions that the only way you could get RCMP officers to actually operate quickly and efficiently in the downtown core of Ottawa was the Emergencies Act because you would not have to swear them in.
How many times have you been sworn in under the provincial police act of Ontario? Has it been more than once?
D/Commr Michael Duheme
It was once, I believe, in assisting Canada Day many years ago.
Senator White, we were quite rapid in getting our resources sworn in from OPS. We had in excess of 400 people sworn in initially to assist OPS.
Senator, Ontario, C
But we do that all the time. We didn't need the Emergencies Act to do that. I think we have sworn in 400 to 700 every Canada Day, and it would last for a year. In fact, I used to joke that, if they moved Canada Day to one day earlier, I wouldn't have to do it twice. They didn't need the Emergencies Act to swear in police officers; it happens all the time.
Senator, Ontario, C
Thank you very much.
Can you tell me, did you have any discussions with anybody from PMO in relation to the invocation of the Emergencies Act prior to the date of invocation?
D/Commr Michael Duheme
I had no dealings with the PMO throughout the incident, throughout the—
Commr Brenda Lucki
I updated PMO specifically. I updated the government, which included the Prime Minister, on the situation across the country.